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Author | Topic: What happens after death for an atheist? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
Para writes: So seriously: nothing, period. How dreadful. How true.
Para writes: You can be the atheist version of Mother Theresa if you want. Or you can be a worthless shit. Neither of those possibilities appeal to me. Any other suggestions? Damned if I can come up with a purpose for my having existed. I would like something attractive and interesting--if possible. Also, I wouldn't mind being fairly important. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-03-2005 17:10 AM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Nighttrain writes: Hi, Rob, for something worthwhile, start your own religion Pretty good idea. I don't think there is any special expertise involved. I could take bits and pieces of different religions and make a new one. I would want my religion to be . . .well, you know . . . rather manly. I'll work on it and report back and maybe set up a Focus Group, like they do to test new TV shows.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Gary writes: If you expect to go to Heaven, what will you do there? Are you expected to just praise God forever? It's pretty obvious that you do not understand the concept of the beatific vision.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
The questions you are asking are from an earthly standpoint, which of course is quite natural.
But the standards of our existence on earth do not apply to the beatific vision. Questions like, what will I learn? and so forth are not valid questions. In the beatific vision, we enter a realm of Pure Being and that realm has nothing to do with us as individual egos. It's not a matter of "what will I do?" "I" will not do anything because there is no "I"--not now, not ever. "Direct contact with God" means the elimination of the delusion of the ego, the elimination of time, the elimination of everything except PURE BEING. We, of course, cannot imagine this.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
ohnhai writes: There is no point living a repressed virtuous life earning brownie points for an after-life that isn't gonna happen. I'd settle for the "virtuous life," repressed or not, but I haven't done that. I don't know how other people are, but it has taken me most of a lifetime to be able to finally look at myself objectively. Not a pretty sight. So my advice is, for somebody young, to try to see yourself as you really are. Then maybe you can do something worthwhile. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-04-2005 08:32 AM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Gary writes: If that is the case, in what way does one go to Heaven, if whatever isn't "pure being" is removed and they are no longer conscious of their own identity? Those who experience Pure Being are those who are capable of it. Some who are very advanced in religious discipline can experience moments of it even in an earthly life. I'm just saying that earthly conditions and states of mind do not apply. Somebody might say, "Won't it get boring?" It would if the subject were in time as on earth, but eternity means "no time." This message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-04-2005 12:01 AM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Tusko writes: The same with deeds and legacy: if I do nice stuff and pass it on, I can't really say that the nice stuff I did was MY nice stuff, because if I did it, I just learned it off someone else. Funny how that doesn't seem to apply the other way. If I do bad stuff and pass it on, I can't really say that the bad stuff I did was MY bad stuff? Oh, yeah, it was mine alright.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Gary writes: If they can prove that they can do that, James Randi will pay them one million dollars The website seems to be looking for evidence of "occult power." What I am talking about is not that. It's an experience that people might have. There's no special powers involved in the earthly sense. It is the transcendence beyond the ego. This is way beyond all the claptrap and fradulent bullshit.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Gary writes: This would be a supernatural power or event. What I am talking about is not "supernatural." There is no such thing as the supernatural in the sense you mean it. It's a natural psychological action that most of us are not familiar with because it takes a lot of sacrifice to acheive it. You might as well say that someone who is remarkably unselfish is "supernatural."
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Gary writes: Or is it just a whole lot of religious mumbo jumbo which makes no sense unless you assume that it is all true? Quite possibly it is mumbo-jumbo. I don't know since I never "experienced" it. I just read about it. Ifen can perhaps address this question. The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.---Milton
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Gary writes: I don't get what this has to do with the concept of Heaven or God though. Ifen knows a lot more about this topic than I do, but I can say something, I think. Ifen says it's not an "experience," which I don't understand, so I will just say that what is "experienced" when the ego is transcended is Reality. The world of ego is not reality. You can also call it God or nirvana. That's the connection. The Beatific Vision is an ecstatic experience. The closest I've come to a Beatific Vision is "Romance." This message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-04-2005 15:55 AM
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Nighttrain writes: Dunno about Beatific Vision, but I,`ve had a number of experiences in my life. Moments of exceptional clarity. I recall being a trifle chilly, but otherwise it was memorable. I had a different vision of myself and the world and set out on a different path afterwards. During the experience, I never met God, heard any voices or a heavenly choir, had no visions of apocalyptic events, just like an overview of existence from another angle. Does this count? Your number of experiences might very well count but we need more information. What were the specific circumstances of your chilliness? In what sense did you have a different vision of yourself and the world? As regards the absence in your experiences of having visions and hearing choirs and so forth, none of those ingredients are necessary. On the contrary, such claims would tend to invalidate the experience. I am very curious about this since I have never transcended anything and have never had a sudden change in my vision of myself or the world or anything else that I can think of though I have often wished to. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-05-2005 11:26 AM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-05-2005 11:29 AM The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.---Milton
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Nighttrain writes: As fast as I could write, new ideas and directions flooded into my mind, most of which worked out in practice. Creos might say it was divine guidance, but it all involved human behavior, no warnings, no retribution. Was I finally getting my act together? Was I evolving? Who knows? Thing is, I am a better person today for the insights. Sounds like a transcendental experience to me. Congratulations. Only spiritually healthy people have such experiences. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Para writes: Are people who don't have these experiences not "spiritually healthy"? Are you back to dualism again? I said that only spiritually healthy people have transcendental experiences, so it would not follow necessarily that spiritually healthy people must have such experiences. I think this is a case of the undistributed what-do-you-call. You sure are a taskmaster, Para, about this dualism business! You keep the whip handy! Actually, I'm not really "back to dualism," but in order to make some points, I sometimes will assume, for the sake of argument, a dualistic position (maybe this is not a good practice, but I enjoy it, and one has to take one's pleasures as one can find them in this world). My own view is that, given any sort of religious idea, dualism is necessary as an assumption since I don't see any difference between "mind" and "soul." In reality I'm still my old nihilistic self . . . Cheers. This message has been edited by robinrohan, 02-07-2005 08:15 AM The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.---Milton
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
If there is a God I would assume that he would be non-corporeal, which would mean he would be a MIND. No point in saying "spirit" as though that were something different from mind. An unnecessary added assumption.If God is a mind, and God exists, then mind exists; therefore, we would have minds that are not physical, like God is not physical. Hence, in order to have a religious belief, one must be a dualist.
So when I'm in my religious role, I assume dualism.
Para writes: So you haven't decided yet where you want to be on the scale from shit to Mother T.? What I want and what I can actually do are two vastly different things. You probably want to be an astronaut or something, but that doesn't mean you can.
Para writes: What's that whisky you are enjoying? It was 8 am over here when I wrote it. I never drink before 2:30 pm. This is a firm rule, and I think a good one.
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