The power of prayer: in action

Schraf, I was only joking with the guy.
I have had to learn a lot of things about prayer. One thing is, your prayers are always answered, you might not get the answer you expect though.There are many variables that will influence God decsions about your prayers.Me personally, I wouldn't expect much if I didn't believe in him. But who knows, if God likes you enough, he might show some mercy on you. Thats just me.I can tell you that life is better when you pray. Try this, a listening prayer. It doesn't matter if you say you don't believe in him, because he is there anyway, and he will talk to you. Ask God where he wants you to go and pray to him, the first thought that pops in your mind will be the answer. Then go there, and ask God what he wants of you, then just listen. Pay close attention to your thoughts, because God is a perfect gentlmen, and he knocks softly, just let him in schraf.If you hear something in your thoughts, but then start rationalizing, then I don't know what to tell you.Or maybe take a course on the art of hearing God. I am about to take this course, and from what all my friends say it is excellent.
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I think its course 101.Peace.

1. There's some fundamentals which one must know and apply to get God's ear.
a. Pray in faith believing.
b. Pray in the name of Jesus, for none of us are worthy to go to God in our own sinful nature. It's like you don't get to talk to a king unless his ambassador or some mediator gets you in.
c. Jesus said, 'If you keep my commandments, you can ask what you will........' Living sinfully contrary to his precepts tunes him out.
d. His children who know him and whom he knows, especially get his ear.2. I pray each morning among other things, to specifically, physically, spriitually and in every way, provide needs of me and mine, keep me and mine well and strong, and protect me and mine from all harm and loss. I also pray for this on behalf of others specific people whom God lays on my heart.With the above in mind, I could write a book on specific prayers God has answered in such a fashion that I know he did it over my 59 years as a Christian, having become a Christian by receiving the Saviour at age 10. He delights in showing himself to be real on our behalf when we work at getting close to him and when we openly acknowledge him. One of the apostles said, "Casting all your care on him, for he cares for you."I'll mention this one as an example. A few decades ago my wife and I were hauling a heavy load of antiques from NY to Calif. where I lived at that time. My wife was teaching at a Christian school in Escondido Calif. (Southern Calif) at the time. My wife was suppose to be at a meeting for teachers the day after Labor Day. We got as far as Palm Desert with our little half ton 60 Ford pickup and heavily loaded U Haul trailer. As we approached the town a rear wheel bearing began growling badly and heating up. Of course we prayed a special prayer about this, asking God to help us. We got into Palm Desert on Labor Day afternoon with this problem. It was a medium sized town at that time and as we passed an auto repare garage we noticed the guy was there and open on Labor day. I went in and presented my dilema. He was busy and couldn't help me but said I could work on it at his curb myself if I had the tools. If I remember right he wanted me to remain on the curb for insurance reasons. I always carried my tools with me on trips so I took it apart I saw that the bearing had spun on the axle and ruined the axle. I took it in and showed the guy. He said something to the effect that I was certainly fortunate, for there was only one axle he knew of that would match mine and that was an old mercury axle which a dune buggy buff had given him a number of years ago. Sure enough it was the exact axle. The guy also had a brand new bearing on hand in his little shop that fit my pickup. He pressed the bearing on the axle for me. He charged me only for the bearing and said the axle was a gift to him from the dune buggy person so I could have it for nothing also. I put the thing back together and we were on our way by evening. We went over the mountains at Indio and into Escondido where my wife made her appointment the next day.1. Broke down in town where towns far apart on hot desert.
2. Broke down near a place open on Labor day, highly unusual and appeared to be only place in town open.
3. Broke down where hard to find axle and bearing were.
4. Axle free, imo, by Gods providence, showing himself real and caring on our behalf as we had little money, most of which had been invested in our load.
5. Broke down before going over steep mountain pass and no towns for a long distance. This would have left us in a very bad state of affairs.
5. Made appointment on time.This message has been edited by buzsaw, 10-28-2004 12:14 AM

Mmmm, that's a bit risky, imo. There's those pesky demons, real existing beings who whisper sensible sounding stuff into spiritual ears and minds. I suggest, weigh all the factors and situations carefully, both in light of Biblical fundamentals and extenuating circumstances, etc before coming to a determination of where God is leading at any given time.

God does indeed answer prayers, sometimes it takes a while and sometimes He answers with a "NO" but He does answer them. Odd that He never answers on time huh!? No, God answers them right on time...His timing is perfect, ours is not! Remember Martha and her perception of Jesus being late? Even in bad situations, where we lose a loved one...rest assured it is God's Purpose. All things do work together for good... Yes its always sad when a loved one departs this life, because we are not ready to let them go yet. Death however is the only means by which the spirit of people can enter into the presence of God. Keep in mind that God rejoices in the death of those who love Him, since they can enter directly into His presence at that time...They finally get to be with God. We too should be happy and rejoice in their salvation. --------------------------------------------------God had never answered my prayers as I was growing up, at one point I denied Him completely. I became somewhat of an anti-christ, searching for anybody to hurt for my own personal amusement. Although my story is long, I can tell you that God has been faithfully answering the prayers of my family. Many have been yes, and He has blessed us abundantly, others have been no and that's okay too. Prayers are a powerful thing, but we need to keep in mind that God does so to His Glory.Anything you don't pray for is simply left to chance...

riverat wrote:

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Well, I'm sure you thought to yourself it would be nice to have my wallet back. Since God can hear your thoughts, he answered and you got it back. He listens to all peoples prayers, not just believers.That is why you chose to label the find of your wallet miraculous

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This is an extraordinary explanation, river. So all good things that happen in anyone's life, atheist and theist alike, are due to God?Some of your Christian colleagues might beg to differ!Can God hear my thoughts (and prayers, if you like) about wanting to win the lotto?I have to be more careful about using religious terms. By miraculous I meant that finding my wallet (keys) actually was much less likely than recovering a wallet which contains identifying information for someone else to act upon.

Hello Purple,I am sorry to hear about your father.It is my experience that the concept of the healing power of prayer often exasperates the emotional turmoil surrounding serious illness, although religiosity can alleviate the grief.Glad to see you now probably appeal to avenues of assistance that may actually help.I hope things work out for you and your family.

riverat wrote:

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Schraf, I was only joking with the guy.

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Oops, I fell for it.

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I have had to learn a lot of things about prayer. One thing is, your prayers are always answered, you might not get the answer you expect though.

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This is what I was saying above: the standard church line is that God responds with Yes, No and Later. Which basically covers absolutely any contigency, from whatever cause, whether they be pixies, elves or random chance.The only results that actually evidence the efficacy of prayer are those that a outside statitical probability and natural causes. Got any examples of those to share?

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I can tell you that life is better when you pray. Try this, a listening prayer. It doesn't matter if you say you don't believe in him, because he is there anyway, and he will talk to you. Ask God where he wants you to go and pray to him, the first thought that pops in your mind will be the answer. Then go there, and ask God what he wants of you, then just listen. Pay close attention to your thoughts, because God is a perfect gentlmen, and he knocks softly, just let him in schraf.

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Avoid this stuff, peoples. It is probably always wise not to act on the inner voice! Of course if you are actually hearing voices and having conversations with unseen entities, it is time to seek medical intervention.

Thanks for your input, Buzsaw.Cars are intriguing things, and it is often easy to see why we become so attached to them and even assign them personalities!Your anecdote is facsinating. I can't quite counter it with perhaps as long a list of fortuitous circumstances in one event, but I'll recount three fortuitous vehicle experiences from my own atheistic life.Remember I don't pray so I have to rely of good ol' chance!1) I was riding my motorbike in heavy Brisbane city traffic a few years ago, down a four lane highway. My bike suddenly started spluttering and starting firing on less cylinders. I was running out of petrol in the centre lane on a mega busy highway! Around the very next corner I spied a petrol station... unfortunately on the other side of the road. The was a solid wall of cars coming the other way, and I wasn't meant to cross anyway as there were double lines. As my bike started slowing, I faced the prospect of grinding to a halt in the middle of the road, in heavy traffic at night, because I couldn't make my way over to the curb. At the last second the traffic coming the other way parted, I dashed across the double lines (naughty me) and with a now stopped engine rolled right up to the premium unleaded petrol pump.2)Years ago, I drove interstate by myself and the first indication I had that my car was in trouble was at 2.30am in the morning. I had been playing hours of very loud music and hadn't been able to hear the engine. When the tape finally finished, I heard my engine ratlling itself into oblivion. I stopped and looked: through some defect all of the sump oil had been forced through the rocker cover breather into the air cleaner box and out underneath the car. I was running with no oil. I didn't fancy the prospect of stopping in the middle of absolutely no-where in the middle of the night, so I hopped back in and limped it to the next town (another 55 kms away) hoping (dare I say praying!) the engine wouldn't seize. When I got there at 3am, the town was deserted. At the local petrol station there was a number for roadside assist: I called it, a cheery mechanic arrived, re-filled my oil, stopped up the breather tube and the car gave me great service for the next two years.Being a petrol head, I've got many others, but I'll try this short motorcycling one.3) I got cleaned up by a mini van while riding my motorbike once. What was amazing is how the van turned into me from head on and slammed into the motorbike swingarm (with enough force to crush the alloy).... and somehow managed to miss my leg which of course lies directly in front of the swingarm. How did the van turn into the rear side of my bike when we were approaching each other head on, and fail to collect my leg sticking out, on the way through?Aren't life's twists and turns absoutely amazing. For atheist and theist alike.

asciikerr wrote:

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God does indeed answer prayers, sometimes it takes a while and sometimes He answers with a "NO" but He does answer them.

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This is the logic I was talking about. So you are completely unable to document the power of prayer because God's responses are completely indistinguisble from the results any other religious person gets when he/she prays to any other deity or the results from random chance.This is a total cop out. Face it, you can't evidence prayer power and your statement is a deisgned to cover this up.

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Anything you don't pray for is simply left to chance...

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But prayer has the same result as chance. With chance, sometimes the "answer" is yes, no or later.

quote:

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It is my experience that the concept of the healing power of prayer often exasperates the emotional turmoil surrounding serious illness, although religiosity can alleviate the grief.

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I went into intense Bible study and finally understand the reality of the Bible and religion.The best description I can give is that I've matured beyond what religion can provide.Since I stopped praying and no longer trust in the ambiguities of religion, my fortune hasn't changed. Actually my husband and I are happier.

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Hi pd,I'm sorry about your father.May I ask, had he survived do you think you would now be still a believer ?

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

You know, whenever I hear Christians relating tales of 'answered' prayers they always seem to follow the same sort of partern:1. Something bad happened. (Usually something bad and unlikely).
2. They prayed.
3. Something moderately unusual happened that sorted things out.What I really fail to understand is how 3 can be an example of their gods loving and guiding hand but 1 is, of course, not. If your god's so big, so loving, so all-knowing and so powerful why, exactly, didn't he stop 1 and save you the whole mess in the first place?For that matter at what point, exactly, did god intervene? See, in Buz's example, the mechanic was open on labour day (didn't he do that every year? He was open a good while before buz came by and prayed), had a part left to him years before (and if god was going to intervene years before why didn't he intervene in a way that saved buz the trouble?). And if god's acting so much before the prayer, what difference does the prayer make?

Demons cannot hear what you think.

I know what you meant.
No matter how many things good that happen to you in your life when you ask for them, you will explain away with statistics, until there is one that you can't, but even then you will try to.

Bad advice.
Your inner voice is your true self, and God. I have tried to explain it away myself by saying things are better for me now, because I am listening to my own inner voice, which I should have been listening to all these years.
Like a womens intuition.
But too many things come into play that acknowledge that is not just from me. All them are good, if it is not good, then it is not God.Be careful the advice you give. If we don't listen to our own inner voice, we might end up listening to someone else's.
mmmmmmmm