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Author Topic:   What led you to God?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 20 of 300 (267875)
12-11-2005 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Brian
12-10-2005 1:46 PM


Re: La La Land again?
I now porteus handled your responses well, but I must add my own.
I find your reply full of anger.
Ah, a perfect setting for yet another Christian self-fulfilling prophecy? Aren’t you bored inventing reasons to believe in God?
Luke 19:40
"I tell you," he replied, "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out."
All of creation cries out the Lord to me, I cannot invent anything.
Did you spare a thought for the thousands of tribal lands that have been soaked in blood by the attempted genocide of the natives by well-meaning Christians?
Are they Christians?
Is it what comes out of our mouth, or what comes out of our hearts?
and times when life was a little more simple.
In what way was life more simple?
I agree.
You don’t seem to realise how self deluding this sounds. You are entering all these situations with deeply entrenched preconceptions; of course you are going to think God is wonderful if you allocate every good feeling that you have to the fluffy little Jesus character. Next time you see pictures in the media of the thousands of starving children who die every day across the world, when you see people dying because they don’t have a few dollars to pay for simple health care, or you see babies born with terrible medical conditions that only allow them to live for a few painful days, do you still get that wonderful spiritual feeling that lovely Jesus is in control. Yes, God is such a wonderful entity when we ignore His incompetence.
If there are 2 biullion Christians in the world, then why are there 1 billion starving people?
Does this mean there is no God?
We only have your word that your head is on straight, this sounds a very subjective claim.
Well judging him like that makes you seem like your head is on straight, and why should we believe you?
That depends, I believe you can do, or get anything you want, if you are prepared to work and wait for it.
A true gift from God, I believe.
Well, you believe you have found a purpose and a path now, so why should it be any different? People of a certain nature can delude themselves into thinking anything is true, some people are more open to suggestion and less inquisitive than others. We have a TV show on here right now entitled “Space Cadets” and the contestants are being tricked into thinking that four of them are going to be the first civilian space tourists. The contestants have been chosen because they are open to suggestion and extremely gullible, hey are all also extremely stupid. They have been told that they are in Russia, and they have gone through a lot of different training exercises, truth is, they are still in England and the vast majority of the information in the lectures they have had is untrue. If one contestant twigs to the fact that they are being conned then the show is over. Now these contestants are as thick as two short planks, they have been told that the city of Minsk was named after a monkey cosmonaut called Minsky, and not one of them twigged! To me, these contestants are identical to many Christians, open to suggestion, extremely gullible, and thick as two short planks. So, I am sure you would still convince yourself that there is a god, regardless of your geographical location.
The difference between Christian, or more correctly, knowing the Lord, is that once you learn the truth you are set free.
John 8:32
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
What do you think John meant by that? Was he just blabbering words?
The people in that TV show, in the end will not be set free. Or will they ever be set free if they continue in the deception.
If anything, that story shows why you should seek God, and not that God is a deception. The fact that there is so much deception in the world, is evidence towards a truth, and that one could exist.
Do you know of any incidents where Christ has made Himself known to someone who hadn’t heard of Him before? Answer that and you will have answered your own question.
Hellen Keller.
Also others in Africa, have come to know the Lord through angels, without having any knowledge of Christ.
I asked the same question you have. Someone once told me, that everyone will have a chance to know Christ. I don't know if I believe it, but I am starting to wonder, as I learn more about the world. I don't know for sure, but really I only concern myself when it comes to a statement like that. Have I had a chance to know Christ?
Millions, probably billions, of children have been brainwashed by well-meaning Christians. They pollute the young brain with their fantasies before the child has entered the abstract thinking stage of their development. Fortunately, a lot of these people become free thinkers as they mature, unfortunately, far too many people are happy to remain in this state of blissful, wilful ignorance.
Proving that people will come to know the Lord in his timing, not some church.
How do you know you would believe in Christ if you were brought up in an African village? That is if you can find an African village that hasn’t been polluted by Christianity.
WE don't know for sure, only God knows, so I agree with you, but obviously God has choosen him, so he therefor choses to follow. If God is going to choose you, it doesn't matter where you live.
How do you ever hope to find the Truth if you are only prepared to continue living this very narrow minded existence?
I believe he has found the truth, and the truth has found him. There is no way to prove it right, or wrong.
Many people are very inquisitive and need more than faith to difficult answer questions.
This is the biggest problem facing real Christians today. Yes we do need more than faith, and the ultimate apologetic is Love.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Brian, posted 12-10-2005 1:46 PM Brian has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 21 of 300 (267879)
12-11-2005 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by coffee_addict
12-11-2005 3:56 PM


Whos going to Hell?
Hang on a second, according to your holy book, some of those people that live in extreme poverty are going to hell anyway, since they never "knew" christ. Huh, hell during life and hell in the afterlife. Go figure.
I don't read the book that way. Maybe that is what people preach, but that is the ultimate condemnation, and if there is one thing I hate most about Chrisitanity, is that. I thought we are not supposed to judge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by coffee_addict, posted 12-11-2005 3:56 PM coffee_addict has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 34 of 300 (268297)
12-12-2005 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Brian
12-12-2005 9:33 AM


Re: Just Answer the Question!
Could you survive without your 'Jesus' fix everyday or so?
Just what is a Jesus fix?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Brian, posted 12-12-2005 9:33 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by Brian, posted 12-20-2005 9:25 AM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 110 of 300 (272522)
12-24-2005 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Brian
12-20-2005 9:25 AM


Re: Jesus fix
I have been to a Pentacostal church. I believe myself in the Pentacost.
I have seen people lying all over the floor, and I did not get it.
But you know what Brian? I decided not to judge those people and what they are feeling. How do I know if it is fake or real? I can only decide if what I feel inside is fake or real.
It is an individual thing, and you try to make it a group thing, signs of prejudice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Brian, posted 12-20-2005 9:25 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Brian, posted 12-24-2005 6:08 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 114 of 300 (272784)
12-26-2005 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Brian
12-24-2005 6:08 PM


Re: Jesus fix
It is called attention seeking and self edification. They want everyone to see them as being special.
I guess I agree with that.
But that brings us to the heart of the matter here, and the OP. What led you to God. In case you haven't read my testimony, I will share a little of what led me to God.
I am 40 years old. I did not always believe in God, especially after the BS of the RC church put me through. But at age 25 when my first child was born, I was so amazed at it, I felt like I needed to start searching. So I started reading the bible.
It took 6 years before I decided that what Jesus was saying (never mind the rest of it) was pretty cool, and if there was a God, then this guy was probably his Son. I liked what he said. So I accepted him by faith that he was his Son. Then another 7 or more years went by, and searching for churches. I really never could find one that I felt would be a good reason to get up early on a Sunday and go.
But then I was told by 2 people that I do not know, on 2 different days (in a row)in another country, that I should be a spiritual leader of my family. Not an uncommon thing to say, but it had never been said to me before. Then when I returned on the third day, a lad I know, but never say anything more than "hi" came up to me and asked me if I was a Christian, because her son and my son were talking about Jesus in school (public school, lol). I said yes, she invited me to a church.
I looked to the sky and said, I hear ya God, I'll go.
When I went to this place, it didn't even say the word church outside. There was this half bald headed guy on the guitar, and a full rock band, and they were jammin out to the Lord. The atmosphere in this place was overwhelming. There was something going on there.
Needless to say I was overwhelmed with a feeling that felt something similiar to being plugged into an electric socket. I left, and then bought some cd's of the music that they were playing, and I continued to feel this feeling for the next 2 weeks, while driving down the road and listening to the music. It was during that time that I all these thoughts started popping into my head, and though God was speaking to me.
I never had thoughts like this before, so like I always say, it was during that time, that I either heard from God, or I went crazy.
But he said some cool stuff to me, and in a instant many things in my life changed. Physical and emotional. Keep in mind, that my life up to that point was really ok. No more hardship than the average person.
I feel it was the Holy Spirit that I felt, and continue to feel to this day.
I have never spoken in tongues, or fell over, but I do feel something, and I can see how that feeling can overwelm people. It's like you feel the presense of GOd, and all his goodness. (I know what your thinking God? good?, yea right) But once you experience the goodness, and the love, then you automatically understand why he did what he did. You almost cannot put it into words, but then again that has been done for you in the bible.
If God is the truth, and Jesus is the light and the way, then this world is surely full of deciet and lies, and you have to do a lot of uncovering before you can see through to the truth. It would seem the more complex our lives are, then the harder it is to see through to the truth.
I know you have an opinion of me, and you might think that I am full of BS, and the whole God thing is full of BS, and I am the perfect example. But I hope not. You would have to get to know me. I was raised in NYC where people curse, and have sick sense of humor. I am made tuff from the street, and have a NYC attitude sometimes. I moved away from there, because I could not take it anymore, and I bought myself a log cabin on a lake in the woods. But God started a work in me, and I hope I remain faithful enough for him to finish it.
Yes God made a big change in me. If you think I am bad now, you should have seen me then. But I was always a good person at heart. Just like I think most everyone here is. If I can experience God like I did, then so can everyone else here in this forum. That is what I am trying to share with people. I want them to know that God loves them. I want things to make sense for people about God. I can see all the deception.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth, and it is by that truth that I now try to let guide me. I don't always do a good job of it.
People can fall down when they experience God's love. Whether they manifest it themselves or God really exists and does show them that love, I can really understand why they fall down. I get a little dizzy sometimes myself. I hope I am not just making this up in my own head. I remain open minded as I can be about it, but so far the last 2 years have been quite a ride. I have found nothing fake about what I feel is God inside of me. But I do see plenty of what I think are fakes in churches, and TV. I have also meet some of the most caring, and faithful people I have ever meet in my life the last 2 years.
So Brian, I don't think it is fake, and yes, something is really making those people fall down. I don't think you can prove it. They fall down, because they fall down, and that is truth. What makes them fall down? I don't know, its an individual thing.
Me I just look at people and ask God, God? is that you doing that or is that something else? I usually get an answer. But the answer is for me, not to share.
Instead of making fun of people who might be faking it. I try to understand why they would fake it. Usually it could be out of a need. So instead of critizing it, I would try to love that person, and fulfill their need. That is what I feel God tells me to do.
Don't see how you can call it prejudice since I have examined many of the pentecostal 'gifts', glossolalia in particular.
I call it prejudice because you have already labeled it all as a fake. You are pre judged before you even meet that person. You feel as though it is proven. I beg to differ. I would agree that some, or more of it may be fake. But I would not commit to it all being fake. Your life is not over, and there is still more to learn.
I also do not understand speaking in tongues. Some churches even require that you speak in tongues before they consider you babtized in the Holy Spirit. I say that is BS. The bible clearly says that not all gifts are for all people. I have not recieved that gift. But I have recieved the gift of patience, love, wisdom, and discernment. Of course these gifts are relative to me, and they are not a full representation of who and what God is.
My wife has been a Christian for 28 years, and she told me she spoke in tongues once. She said she really did not have control over what was coming out of her mouth. My wife may be many things, but she is not a liar, so I believe her, and what she experienced.
So I don't really know what it is. I don't think Jesus ever spoke in tongues. Only those filled with the Holy Spirit. I also have never seen someone interpret tongues, supposedly another gift.
Oh and BTW, on the first day I went to that church, my wife asked me for us as a family to go up for prayer. A lady asked us what do you want me to pray for? My wife responed, just pray of us in general. She prayed for me to be a spiritual leader of the family. 3 different people, who I never met before in one week and a day, told me the same thing. I never heard it before, and I never heard it since. Yes my eyebrow was raised. I understand it proves nothing though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Brian, posted 12-24-2005 6:08 PM Brian has not replied

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