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Author Topic:   Did Jesus Lie?
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 7 of 65 (434339)
11-15-2007 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
11-14-2007 2:59 AM


Re-Faith of a grain of mustard seed
Hi sidelined,
Jesus himself answered your question.
sidelined writes:
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
I maintain that it is not done because it cannot be done because it is impossible. Is there no amount of Christians on Earth reading these pages that will step up to the plate and do that which the central figure that they claim to believe in emphatically states they are capable of doing?
It is not that it is impossible. It is because no one has the faith required to accomplish the tasks.
As you are aware the word "IF" is one of the biggest words in the english language.
Jesus did qualify our being able to do the things you would like to see Christians do.
Consider the mustard seed it is very small but when planted and it germinates it makes a large plant compared to its size.
Jesus said if I had that much faith I could do all the things you think I am supposed to be able to do. But the problem is that I do not even have enough faith to save me from eternal damnation. Therefore I have to depend on the Faith of Jesus Christ Himself that He has in the promise of His Father to save me if I trust in Jesus to save me from my sins. Much is made of faith and belief in Christianity. But to me having faith in Jesus is the same as when I go to the airport and get on a plane to go somewhere. At that moment I am putting my life in the hands of the pilot and co-pilot and the mechanical ability of the aircraft to get me to my destination. When I put my faith in Jesus I am putting my soul in the hands of Jesus and trusting Him to get me to my final destination.
sidelined, you are absolutly correct in assuming that I should be able to heal the lame, raise the dead, ask God to blind you and Him do those things. The problem is that you do not know God or the way that God works. I will let you in on a little secret, God will never give you the sign that you demand in order for you to believe in Him.
Jesus said:
Matt 12:39 (KJS) But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
I am truly sorry that I cannot give you a sign but there will be none.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sidelined, posted 11-14-2007 2:59 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by sidelined, posted 11-15-2007 4:00 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 19 by iceage, posted 11-16-2007 2:07 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 17 of 65 (434468)
11-15-2007 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by sidelined
11-15-2007 4:00 PM


Re: Re-Faith of a grain of mustard seed
Hi sidelined,
I know what I believe and I am glad that you was able to look up my statement. sidelined I believe these things as fact as I see it just as what you believe is fact as you see it.
God is just as much a fact to me as the universe coming into existence as the result of a singularity expanding, which you or no one has any idea where it came from is to you.
Do I believe God can do anything. Yes. Do I believe He will. No.
I believe that He will do whatever He wills to do regardless of what I or anyone else thinks He should do.
I just want the rest of you to realize that fact.
I just want you to realize that one day you will stand before the God you say does not exist and confess that He is God.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by sidelined, posted 11-15-2007 4:00 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by sidelined, posted 11-16-2007 7:58 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 20 of 65 (434511)
11-16-2007 4:34 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by iceage
11-16-2007 2:07 AM


Re: Re-Faith of a grain of mustard seed
Hi iceage,
You asked:
Why not?
How about because Jesus said so.
Jesus said:
Matt 12:39 (KJS) But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
iceage writes:
A curious fact is that the lack of desire of your God to "give you the sign"
I do not need nor do I desire a sign.
You guys are the ones wanting a sign.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by iceage, posted 11-16-2007 2:07 AM iceage has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by iceage, posted 11-16-2007 1:04 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 40 of 65 (434653)
11-16-2007 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by sidelined
11-16-2007 2:50 PM


RE-STEPHEN
Hi sidelined,
Are you here equating all so called Christians to Stephen?
Well we have the following.
Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
Again faith is the key and again we have yet another example of a completely different context showing this matter to be true according to the words Jesus used.
You claim the key is faith. The text says He was full of faith and Power.
Stephen was a deacon in the Church, that had seen Jesus, he had accompanied Jesus during His personal ministry.
For your information Peter, Paul and Stephen did many miracles. They also gave their life. These so called Christians you say should be able to perform miracles are not even willing to give their time to the cause of God must less their life.
If you check my past posts you will see I do not claim to be a Christian just a born again child of the King.
Christian=Christ like.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by sidelined, posted 11-16-2007 2:50 PM sidelined has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 41 of 65 (434688)
11-16-2007 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by sidelined
11-16-2007 7:58 AM


Re: Re-Faith of a grain of mustard seed
sidelined what makes you think I am squirming.
I mearly state that I have no doubt that God can do anything.
I will state here and now that I do not have the faith of a grain of mustard seed. It always does exactly what it is supposed to do. Make a mustard plant.
I state that I am not a Christian. Christian=Christ like.
I state that I do not have the faith Peter, James, John, and Stephen had. Those men saw Jesus and was taught by Him. They saw His death,
They saw Jesus many times after He arose from the dead. Peter and John saw Jesus ascend into heaven. They saw the physical evidence and were satisfied. They then endevored to do everything in their power to spread the gospel, even to the point they were killed.
Now you say I am squirming because I do not have the faith that they did. All I have is the record that was recorded and I choose to believe that it is true and therefore by faith I believe God and accept the account of Him and His promises.
You say the record is a lie. That the Word of God is just the rambling dreams and notions of man. That is your priviledge.
I also have the priviledge of believing Gods Word and I chose to do so.
If I am blind and demented because of that so be it.
But we have not even touched on the scriptures that says when that which is perfeect is come (Word of God) then that which is in part (healing, speaking in other languages without knowing them,etc) would be done away with.
1Cor 13:10 (KJV) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When those are done away with there will remain Faith, Hope, and Charity.
1Cor 13:13 (KJV) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
I gave you scripture where Jesus said He would not give this sinful generation a sign.
If you have a problem with that, why don't you take it up with Him when you face Him at the Great White Throne Judgment?
Enjoy

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by sidelined, posted 11-16-2007 7:58 AM sidelined has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 43 of 65 (434918)
11-17-2007 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by sidelined
11-17-2007 11:32 AM


Re-MUSTARD SEED
Hi sidelined,
He was not saying they have magic powers, he was saying that faith in God meant that you could accomplish anything no thing would be beyond you.
Lets look at the passage and see exactly what He said.
Matt 17:20 (KJV) And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Jesus is answering a question asked by His disciples concerning casting out a devil.
The reason they could not was their unbelief.
Jesus told them if ye have faith AS a grain of mustard seed,
ADVERB: 1. To the same extent or degree; equally:
CONJUNCTION: 1. To the same degree or quantity that.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
These definitions of the word as says that we must have the same amount of faith the mustard seed does.
I like you had always read the verse to mean as little of faith as the size of a mustard see which would not be very much.
But it does not say that.
It says just as much.
Then the question comes to mind how can a mustard seed have faith. Then I got to thinking about my days on the farm when we planted a garden. I planted a lot of mustard seed and I never got anything but a mustard plant. Some that was planted in a low area in one field got to be a pretty good size. (over 6' tall)
So now I must correct my statement about the mustard seed.
sidelined writes:
Actually ICANT does however, his claim is that he does not have enough, nor can ever have enough, faith.
I definitely do not have enough faith.
I also believe that there is no man alive that is able to perform miracles today by the power of God.
I do believe God can perform miracles.
Since the mustard seed has never deviated from the job assigned to it, the mustard seed has perfect faith. In that it does everything in just the way God planned for it too. It has never disobeyed God.
It has always been perfect every since God created it.
Man on the other hand is a different story.
All have disobeyed God. So none is perfect that is why the disciples had a problem.
Jesus was perfect and had no problem with casting out the devil.
Neither did any of those Jesus gave special powers to.
Not all of the 120 disciples that followed Jesus daily could perform miracles. Not even all the apostles could perform miracles.
Those that could were given special powers.
So for a man to perform the miracles that Jesus and His disciples did they would have to be perfect and have perfect faith as the mustard seed does.
sidelined, many thanks for bringing this to my attention and making me read the passage for what it says not what I thought it said.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by sidelined, posted 11-17-2007 11:32 AM sidelined has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by iceage, posted 11-28-2007 9:05 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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