Did Jesus Lie?

Jesus was not saying that the mustard plant, in general, is a big tree. He even refers to it, rightly, as an herb in that passage. But the mustard seed in this parable is like the kingdom of god, so unlike the other mustard plants, it grows into a big tree.

One thing I think you've failed to consider is the whole "testing god" thingy.People with enough faith could move a mountain, but if they are doing it to test for god, then it won't work.Yeah its pretty much a cop-out.But then too, Jesus says that nothing will be impossible if you have the faith. So even testing god should be possible if we read it literally enough.Personally, I think Jesus was speaking figuratively in this passage.

Horribly reply... Are you trying to misunderstand what I'm saying? I read the passage and know what it says.If X is like Y then Y is like X, no? Question to Jesus: What is the kingdom like?Jesus' Answer: It is like a mustard see that grows into a big tree instead of growing into a small herb. Well duh! Do you think I'm illiterate or a complete moron? Right, but if the mustard seed is like the kingdom of god then it would grow into a big tree instead of a small herb.It really isn't difficult to understand unless you try not to.

Okay, I re-read that chapter (Matt 17) and Jesus doesn't seem to be speaking as figuratively as I had thought.Its still a posibility in that he didn't really mean that they could move mountains and that mountains are just an example of something really big to exemplify the power of faith.But assuming that he did mean it, it seems like Jesus is only talking to his disciples. Basically he is saying that they have magic powers like he does (if they have enough faith). I don't think this applies to us today. You can see yourself that we don't have magic powers, but the Bible claims (i doubt I can link to a verse, tho) that the disciples had other magic powers back then too, right?Either way, Jesus wasn't lying.

These could be exceptions to the rule... I'm not convinced. In the quoted passage, Jesus does not seem to be suggesting that everybody has those magic powers. Examples of other individuals posessing the magic powers does not mean that everyone has them.Are there any other passages where you think that Jesus suggests that everyone has the magic powers? As it is written, Jesus was only talking to his immediate disciples. I still don't think he was lying.

Whatever. I hadn't misread the passage, I was just trying to explain it to you.Its clear that Jesus said that the kingdom of god is like a mustard seed that grows into a big tree (as opposed to a mustard see that grows into the regular herb). How isn't it? No, I was using an online bible. Well of course he's going to look like a moron if that is what you are trying to make him look like.What is it about my interpretation that you find to be wrong?Can you answer that question with something that I can reply to other than just, "Nope, you reaed it wrong, your bible is different."What, specifically, and I wrong about?

As the Son of God, no.But I do think that you can interpret scripture to make it look like he was lying.

Sure.I'm biased though, not lying is the default position. I was beginning to think you were trolling... but I guess not.You seem to be more interested in insulting christians than discussing anything.

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What sport?Soccer?That's, like, my least favorite sport. Plus, all the soccer players that I've known personally were douchebags.

Well, Jesus was only talking to his disciples, right?He was saying that they have magic powers. We don't really have enough info to know if he was including everybody in on having those magic powers.There were non-disciples with the same magic powers too. So that means, to you, that everyone has the magic powers?I don't think so. Excuse me!?You always have the option of not replying.Besides, I'm just entertaining the idea that it was not figurative. If you didn't want me dumbing down your thread then you coul have replied to this:

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Its still a posibility in that he didn't really mean that they could move mountains and that mountains are just an example of something really big to exemplify the power of faith.

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Yeah, but nobody really believes that they can move a mountain with the power of their faith alone. The point that Jesus was making was that faith is really powerful. He was using 'moving a mountain' as a metaphore for something impossible to exemplify that. He wasn't saying that people could literally move mountains around with their magical faith powers.But casting out a demon, not so much. Because he didn't simply just grant them magic powers. You have to have faith in order to use them. Faith is the mana. I don't know.

I've never claimed as such. In fact, I remember admitting before that I'm not really that good of a christian. So, so fucking what? I guess I was right afterall when I wrote:

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I was beginning to think you were trolling... but I guess not.

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You seem to be more interested in insulting christians than discussing anything.

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I guess I'll be putting you back on my blacklist.

I'm just calling that "magic powers". Well, with the powers of an omnipotent god on your side, nothing is impossible, right?I believe that, with god's help, someone could move a mountain with their faith. Its just that god isn't in the buissness of mountain-moving anymore. Not being able to actually move the mountain doesn't mean that it is impossible.Again, I still don't see how Jesus has to be lying. But I don't really even care that much anymore. Its been a little while and I've lost interest in the discussion.