Answers to athiest's dum disputes

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True,some atheists do seem to be polite people,but that doesn't appear to be the majority.

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How many atheists do you know?

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Our DNA is proof that God made each one of us by his own hand,amen.

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Really? Can you explain how DNA is proof of our individual divine origin?You could begin by explaining why God sometimes screws up the DNA of an individual so they get some terrible genetic disease.

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since you don't believe in God or any god that I know of,it may surprise you that one day you will have to join the one world religion very soon or be killed,because Inter faithism is already here and the prophecy cannot be stoped now.It's all happening,so go ahead,declair that you don't believe in God,you will either believe in the one world religion thats coming,or you'll be done away with.
The one world religion is the false church thats about to take over globally to usher in the AC. Once it's set up,you have a choice to make.

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OK, against my better judgement, I'll bite.What is your evidence that a one world religion is going to be imposed upon everyone on the planet?If anything, isn't that the wet dream of Fundamentalist Evangelical Christians? After all, Pat Robertson pretty blatantly preaches that he wants the US to become a Fundamentalist Christian Theocracy.What evidence can you provide which will convince me that your scenario isn't just a crazy paranoid delusion?

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so you believe people just popped up on the earth accidentally one fine day,right? WOW,and this is suppose to make us think you are real smart?

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If I'm not mistaken, it is a literal reading of Genesis which has people "pooping up into existence", correct?The scientific view, which is based upon evidence found in nature, is that life evolved (however the first life got here) from very simple forms to those we see around us today, including ourselves.

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if things are evolving at all,why aren't they still evolving?

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What makes you think they aren't?Ever heard of antibiotic resistant bacteria? How do you think they got that way?

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do you believe you are an animal,and you live by your instincts?

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We do use our animal instincts, but we also evolved to have these really complex, powerful brains that enable us to think in abstract, complex ways. Instinctive behavior became less important to our survival as a apecies as our ability to solve problems and exchange complex information to each other. Also, animals do not operate solely on instinct; they use cognitive thought processes as well.

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Well fallen man has instincts that are not the will of God,and they are not good things.

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Really? Like what?

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so if you are no different than an animal,would it be acceptable to treat you like one?

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We are primates with really complex, wonderful brains.We ARE animals.

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I am not mean to animals,I love animals,but would you sleep out side?

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Sure, it's called camping.

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Or do you feel that you are above the animals some how? If you are an animal,and thats what you are,then you cannot expect to be treated differently because I believe their should be equality among the animals,and they they should all be given equal rights.

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O-kayyyy...

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I also believe they should eat animal food,and live out doors,and not expected to clean up after themselves,or be treated better than those who declare that they are people,different from the animal kingdom.

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Do you have a point with all of this?

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If you feel you are an animal,then what you mean is that it's not your fault that you behave as you do,and that you do what you do purely by instinct,and that you have no control over it what so ever,right?

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Why on earth do you think that anyone believes this to be true?

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So,if you evolved,where are those who are still evolving and after a few hundred years you would think some more evolving would take place so we could all see it!!!

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The problem lies with rates of reproduction. We have been observing evolution both in the lab and in the field for decades, but usually in plants and in animals which have rapid generational turnover, like bacteria and flies.Before going any further, I think I will direct you to several websites which do a good job explaining the basics of Evolutionary Biology, because it is clear that you really are quite confused regarding Biology in general and Evolution in particular.Enjoy:http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html
science - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com

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What you fail to understand here,is that one day satin will demand worship from all those he can get it from,and while he loves it that you are an atheist,thats not going to be good enough to him soon.he would rather you belong to a false church or an occult,or satanic group,so you will change one day soon,all of you will,wait and see.

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Yep, we'll wait and see.[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-11-2004]

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what I don't understand is why people believed in the Titanic,but don't believe the events of Noah's ark!!!

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Are you really seriously asking this question?There are photographs of the Titanic. There are videotapes and photographs of the Titanic underwater. There were survivors of the shipwreck who witnessed the sinking. We have physical evidence of the existence of lots of stuff that happened with the Titanic that anyone can look at and hold in their hands.All of this happened only a couple of generations ago.We have ZERO physical evidence of the ark, and for the story to be true at least a couple of dozen miracles would have had to happen.Sorry, but if you have to invoke miracles, it kind of lowers the hisorical plausibility.

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Well,since you did ask,yes I do know some atheists!

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So, are the majority of them impolite?

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God doesn't give people genectic diseases.sin spread and their are generation curses.

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Wait, didn't you say that DNA is the proof that each of us are individually created by God?If God creates each of us individually, why does he create our DNA with errors?

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there are rare occassions when a child is born with some kind of illness that God allowed to happen to bring more glory to The Lord when The child recieves a miracle,ect...

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What about the child born with a horrible genetic condition that causes the child to gradually die in terrible suffering?Remember, you said that the proof of God creating us individually is our DNA. God created that child with mistakes.

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but people have sex,and they spread V.D. God tells us not to do it,yet many won't listen to him.V.D. is spread and it affects innocent people too.The rain falls on the good and the bad.

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Genetic disorders are not caused by sexually transmitted diseases.They are caused by copying errors during gestation or by mutations in the gentic code in eggs and sperm.

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I don't know why you don't believe in God,but that would be your situation,not mine.
If you don't want to believe in God,you won't.

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True, and irrelevant to the discussion.

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DNA is proof that your DNA is not like anyone else's on the earth unless you are a twin. But,even twins have some differences,small differences,yet still different.

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But this doesn't explain what you said.Each individual's DNA code is unique, but how does this prove that we were individually created by God? All it seems to say to me is that my code is most similar to my parents' code, and a bit less similar to my grandparents' code, and a bit less similar than that to my great-grandparents' code, and so on.I'd be more inclined to believe your claim that DNA proves my divine creation if each of us had a code that was completely unrelated to anyone else's.

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God is holy,and he shouldn't have to put up with sin or filthy behavior. God is holy and he is who he is,amen.
You cannot bring God down to your level of thinking!!!

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I'm just trying to get you to explain how DNA proves individual divine creation.

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God did everything to save you,the rest is your choice! God didn't tell you to sin,thats your choice.The One world religion is already forming anyway,so I don't think you'll have a problem believing in God before to long! Just hang in there,you'll believe God sooner or later or you'll choose to worship satan,but make no mistake,the time is very near now.If you ever read the bible,you'd know that.please read it,at least so you can comment on it,o.k?

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What makes you think I haven't read the Bible?BTW, a bit less preaching and a bit more support of claims would be welcome.

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Well,it's like the administrators said,I cannot preach to you or others about being a christian and you cannot preach to me about what you believe,so with that being understood,I hope we can agree to disagree.

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First, I wan't preaching to you about anything.I was, however, asking you questions which were meant to encourage you to explain what kind of evidence (facts) you have based your claims upon.Do you seriously expect me to believe everything you say just because you say so? Why shouldn't I have all of my questions answered to my satisfaction before I believe you?

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With a name like Creation V Evolution I could see why people could misunderstand. Are people allowed to debate here?

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The purpose of most of this site is debate.What you seem to not understand is that during productive debate, when someone responds to one of your factual claims with a request for more specific information, you provide it or concede that you cannot.What you do not do is tell people that they will burn in Hell if they don't just believe you because you say so.That is the opposite of productive debate.

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yes,but if the world is still here for a few more hundreds of years,how will people know it was really true and not a hoax then?

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Some people might, but they would have to deny a huge amount of evidence.

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our pictures today won't be any proof tp people then,and they could just say the computer created the image,ect....

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Um, no.It isn't just the pictures. It's ALL of the hundreds of various pieces of evidence, including the Titanic itself resting on the bottom of the ocean.There is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of the ark.

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but Israel is still here today and so are the Jew's and many other ancient facts from the bible.

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Muslims and Palestine exist, so is the Quran true?
Hindus and India exist, so is the Bahavigad Gita true?

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No people didn't just pop up,God made them.

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What is the difference between people just "popping up" and God just "poofing" them into existence?

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Thats a much better explanation to me,than the one on evolution.

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But "Godidit" is not an explanation at all.I'd be interested to know what you learned at the TalkOrigins Introduction to Evolutionary Biology website I provided to you.

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have you not read in the beginning when God made man that all creation was good?
God didn't create bad DNA.

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But YOU said that DNA is the evidence that God individually created each of us, right?DNA is fixed at conception, so, by definition, God HAD to have created some people with errors in their DNA.If you would like to take back your assertion that DNA is evidence of individual creation by God, then feel free.

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In the beginning people lived alot longer and sin hadn't spread as much as it has now.

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Human lifespan in western countries has stradily increased over the last several centuries, thanks to scientific advances in medicine, nutrition, and sanitation.If sin is getting worse and worse, shouldn't lifespans be getting shorter and shorter, if your logic is correct?

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God made everything good,but he also made man with free will like the Angels.
Why would anyone blame God?
Well,I'm not saying that you would blame him,since you don't believe in him.

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Bingo.

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In my honest opinion,if God did not exist,life would be the cruelest joke of all!!!

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I don't believe in God, but I really love life.

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Man- kinds sins do affect the innocent,and to me thats not God's fault,it's mans fault. I believe it's good to control our bodies and our thoughts so we don't have diseases and wars.
Why do innocent people get hurt,ect..... Did God ever say they wouldn't?

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So, when good things happen it's because of god, but when bad things happen it's our fault?Tell me, how is it the fault of any human that God made a person's DNA with mistakes so that they are born to die a painful slow death?

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God said in this world we would have trouble.

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So, how do I tell the difference between a world in which a God exists, but seems to randomly allow bad things to happen to innocent people, and a world in which there is no God and random bad things happen to innocent people?How do I tell the difference in the effect of God and no God?

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it is clear that as a christian I would have the tendency to believe that those who refuse to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and savior will go to the lake of fire,

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There are many Christians who do not believe this.

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but if you don't believe this,why would me mentioning it in a post somewhere make you feel upset or angry.

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I'm not upset nor angry.It is just that preaching to me about eternal hellfire is a common tactic that creationists use to avoid having to discuss the logical or factual errors in their statements when they don't want to admit that they are wrong or uninformed.

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You are aware of what christians believe,right?

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Not all Christians think that their God is so cruel as you do.

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It is not anything personal against you,it's what I believe as a christian.

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It's what you believe as your particular sort of christian.I do not take it personally, but I do recognize it as a tactic used to avoid discussion.

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You don't feel you preach to others?

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No, not at all.I ask lots of questions about facts, though.

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When I believe in the Bible and show you scriptures,will you believe them? If I tell you that Israel is proof the God of the Holy Bible is real,would you believe me?

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If I tell you that India is proof that the Bahavigad Gita is real, would you believe me?

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If I tell you that demons have yelled at me when I was casting them out,would you believe that? of course not,so tell me what you would be willing to accept as evidence?

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I would accept as evidence, say, 5 unambiguous, very specific prophecies from the bible which have been fulfilled. Nothing fuzzy or vague would convince me.Tell me, what evidence would convince you that the common descent is reality?

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If you want to encourage someone to explain something,you may ask them to do just that.

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For heaven's sake, I have done that repeatedly in at least 2 of my posts to you, and you have ignored those questions.

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Productive debate is fair on both sides.Have you given factual evidence to support your claims?

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First of all, I haven't made many claims. I have mostly been reponding to your claims.Second, I have provided you with sources of information regarding Evolutionary Biology and science which are well-referenced.

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I don't hold it against you because you live like there is no God,though as a christian I don't admire it.

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Yes, I do live as if there is no God.I hold myself accountable to all of the people who's lives I touch, and to myself. I try to do the right thing every day not because of fear of eternal punishment of promise of eternal reward, but just because doing the right thing is reward enough. I know I only have one shot at life, so I had better live it to the fullest and be a positive force in as many people's lives as I can. I do my best to not cause harm to others because that's not how I would want to be treated.I am sorry that you don't admire how I live but I think it's a pretty good ethical code.

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I believe The Holy Bible is the true word of God,and to be able to state that claim I must agree with all of it.
If I agree with all of it,then you know what I believe right?

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My question to you is, do you worship God, or do you worship the Bible?

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I believe the Ark rests on Mount Ararat or near there.

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That's nice, but without evidence I don't have to share your belief.

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Palestine was Judea,it is jewish land that no one else has a right to
Claim. God gave it to the Jew's.The romans took it after burning down the holy temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and they named it Palestine.
In the bible it tells of the story of Abraham and Sarah. Sarah had a slave named Hagar. Sarah son is the son with God's promise,Hagars is not. Hagars relatives hates Sarahs relatives. Abraham sent Hagar and her son away.To this very day they are still fighting with the Jew's from the line of Abraham & Sarah.
I am assuming that you have read the bible,right?

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Yes, but just because something is written in the Bible doesn't mean it really happened that way.I mean, there are lots of contradictions and factual errors in the Bible.You have read the bible, right?

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Did I say that God just poofed people into existance?
God made them.

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Oh, thanks, I understand that "made" and "poofed" are completely different.HOW did he make them?

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No,I guess I didn't see your web sites listed,or something.Why do you need a web site to explain for you.

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Here are the websites again:http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html
science - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.comThe reason I like to refer folks to websites is because it would be a waste of time and space to go into a detailed discussion of scientific concepts that take several pages to explain.

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I use the ancient book called the Holy Bible and what Jew's still believe about God today,even the ones who have not yet accepted Jesus Christ.

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That's great, except when you make erronious statements about science, perhaps you might want to go to a science website to learn something about the science so you can correct yourself, eh?

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Where does it say any where that God made human DNA with mistakes?

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You do.You said that DNA is PROOF that God created each of us individually.It is a fact that some people have DNA mistakes so severe that they die shortly after being born.So, it logically follows from what you said that God made each of those individuals that way.

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Do you not understand,that when God first created life,there were no DNA mistakes? Name at least 10 people in the same year who lived to be 95 or 100? 100 and 20 years is what the bible says is about the longest a person will be able to live after the flood.

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But human lifespans are increasing, not decreasing.That's beside the point anyway, because you don't have any evidence that people had very long lifespans in the past. You believe it because the Bible says so, and that's fine, but I don't believe it because there is no evidence in nature that suggests that it's true.Similarly, I do not believe that the stars are lights that are "set" into a solid "firmament", even though the Bible says so.Do you think that spacecraft run into the firmament?

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I know of a christian woman who lived to be 111 years old.She just died a few years ago.She was the Grandmother of a close christian friend of mine.

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That's nice.Why are life spans increasing, not decreasing?If someone in your lifetime lives to be older that 120 years, will you consider the Bible in error?

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You still have not explained why everyones DNA is totally
different from anyone elses?

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People's DNA is not totally different from anyone else's, so I wouldn't try to explain how it is.

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Why can't people have the same DNA profile?

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Because most people aren't clones.

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Why do all people have totally one of a kind finger prints?

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Why are no two snowflakes exactly alike?Does God create each snowflake individually, or do the principals of physics come into play to form random symmetrical arrangements of molecules of frozen H2O?

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Do you know how many different species of Frogs there are in the world?

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Not exactly how many, but we probably have a pretty good idea of a general number.

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There are so many in fact,that it's very unlikely that they evolved.

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Excuse me? How does the number of species of a life form indicate anything at all about liklihood of it's having evolved? Species adapt to various environments and fill available niches. It's what is expected in evolution.Have you read the website on Evolutionary Biology yet?

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We all know that dogs can only produce dogs. Everything that is created must come from the same thing it was made from. Apple trees produce apples,and humans produce human.You cannot get a cat pregnant from a Dog and visa versa.

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However, you can get mules from the mating of a donkey and a horse. Most of the time, mules are sterile, but sometimes a female will be fertile.Also, you forget about plant hybridization and speciation.Did you even read what I explained to you about rates of reproduction? We HAVE OBSERVED speciation in the lab and in the field.Why don't you explain exactly what you think is involved in what scientists call Evolution? That way I'll have an idea how much you know.

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All life comes from the source it was created from.

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Right. Everything had a parent. Children are not exact duplicates of the parents, and not all offspring survive. The gene pool of a population changes over time. Over long periods of time, plus environmental pressures and often including geographical isolation, two groups that used to be very similar are now not similar and can no longer produce viable offspring. That's evolution.We've seen this both in the lab and in the field.

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Do you believe you enjoy life more than I do?

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I have no idea.

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I guess some people think they enjoy life when they don't have to worry about being punished for their sins.

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Don't believe that living in fear of eternal punishment is a happy way to live, but that's just me.I'd rather do what's right because it's simply right rather than through fear or hope for reward.

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I would rather live forever because life shouldn't have to end with just this one life.

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Well, that's fine, but has nothing to do with my life, nor if evolution is true.

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No,I did not say that when all good things happen that people don't play a role in it some how.God blesses those who love others very much.

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So, when bad things happen, it's because people are to blame.When good things happen, it's due to God, and sometimes people.I still don't know how to tell the differnce between a world in which random bad things happen to people and people cause good things to happen, and a world in which God allows random bad things to happen.

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If you seek God with your heart,you will find him.

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I did seek god in my heart, but he didn't answer.It was just me talking inside my own head.

Well, I do not think you understand these issues of Biology, and are therefore making uninformed statements about it, yes.

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If you were to research this you could find out that history does back up the bible.I know you don't have to believe it. I'm not the bully on the play ground,Geee!

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I am going to go out on a limb and say that I have probably done a lot more research about the historical accuracy of the Bible than you have, and I have found it quite lacking.

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What I thought were contradictions actually turned out to be errors on my part. It is not hard to mis-understand the bible,but the bible truly doesn't contradict it's self.

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According to Matthew Mark, and Luke, the Last Supper is a Passover meal, meaning Jesus is crucified after the start of Passover. However, in John, Jesus is crucified and dead before the start of Passover.So, how do you explain this contradiction?

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You know I cannot make you accept my views,I am just sharing my views as you are sharing yours.

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I hope you will become interested in understanding the evidence behind the reasons I have for accepting biological concepts such as evolution.

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I looked over those web sites and I cannot believe any of it.

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I'm not asking you to believe it.I'm asking you to understand it.What are you having trouble understanding?

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Nothing could be more natural than having a creator who made you on purpose.Thats natural. What is un-natural to me is how humans can believe that they came from somewhere other than a creator who wanted them here.

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Do you believe that DNA paternity tests are accurate?Why or why not?