Christmas Star Explained

That's a good point. Actually, it doesn't seem that there were many witnesses:

quote:

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Mat 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Mat 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.

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It doesn't seem like Herod or anybody in Jerusalem had noticed the star before the wise men mentioned it. That suggests that it was an astrological "sign" more than a literal new light.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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Why was Herod (and all Jerusalem with him) "troubled" when the wise men asked about the star? If they had already seen it, why weren't they already troubled? What changed when the wise men came?

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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But why would "all Jerusalem" be troubled? Herod had a throne to lose but surely some of the ordinary peons would be glad to see him go, not troubled. They assumed that he had wise men of his own who would have told him about the sign.But if Herod already knew about it, why did he ask the wise men when it appeared?

quote:

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Mat 2:7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.

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Edited by Ringo, : "And" --> "But".

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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You can take the "star" as a metaphor for Kris Kristofferson while you're at it. I'm just taking what the text says, and there's simply no indication that anybody saw the "star" except the wise men. (Before or after, for that matter.) You're missing my logic. My logic is that the wise men were open with Herod because they assumed He already knew about Jesus' birth. While we're at it, why would they assume that the new king was a usurper and not Herod's own son? Everybody saw the "star", but nobody paid any attention until some guys from the East mentioned it? Then they got troubled?Just read the story, SimpleTaz.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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A fable doesn't need embellishment any more than the truth does. You know damn well that's not what I'd ask. I'd ask, "Where's the baby?" - exactly like the wise men did. It was Herod who told them to go to Bethlehem. In your analogy, you'd be telling me, "He's at grandma's house." You're still missing it. There is no "brightness" in the story to exaggerate. When I asked you to read the story, I meant read what's in the story, not make up a bullshit story of your own. You need to read the Bible with Occam's Razor. So you agree that most of the people never saw any "star"? That's what I've been saying.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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Or, it could be because it wasn't there.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just saying that there's no indication in the Bible that the shepherds saw the star.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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That's what I'm saying. Simple claimed that thousands of people saw the star. I said that the Bible says nothing of the kind. The embellishment is in the Iliad. It doesn't need simple adding anything about Achilles' wheels.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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An angel and a heavenly host are mentioned. There's no mention at all of any vehicle transporting them, nor is there any mention of anything that could be remotely interpreted as a star. Then the contents (angel and heavenly host) would have been cloaked too, else the cloaking would be useless. Funny how He reveals certain delusions to you and you alone. Need-to-be-deluded, I guess.Edited by Ringo, : Removed nonsensical subtitle. Note to self: learn to compose subtitles.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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It doesn't matter why they didn't "see it". The fact is, they didn't.They didn't see it before the angel arrived and they didn't see it after the heavenly host left. One reason they might not have seen it at all is that it wasn't there. If we read just what's in the story, the most sensible inference is that the "star" was an alignment or something of that kind, which would not have been noticed by anybody but astrologers. No, we don't know that. That's sheer lunacy. It would make no sense to cloak the "ship" and show its passengers - especially because of the bright light. That's no way to hide anything. If no "ship" is mentioned, the sensible inference is that there was no ship there. Incoherent raving is not evidence.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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If they had mentioned it, we'd know. Since they didn't mention seeing any star, we can't just assume it was there. As far as we know from the shepherd story, it wasn't. Neither did the "star". On the first approximation, it (mis)led the wise men to Jerusalem. Once Herod had told them to go to Bethlehem, it conveniently "led" them there? If any part of the story is an exaggeration, the second coming of the star certainly is. Clearly, Ezekiel got into some questionable mushrooms. I'm saying that the Christmas star was not a star in the "modern sense". It was a star in the astrological sense. That's the only explanation that makes sense, since nobody but astrologers saw it.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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The reason to infer that it wasn't a star is because it wasn't seen. Nobody said there were "no stars in the sky". There were no unusual stars in the sky, or somebody would have noticed. Since there is nothing unusual about the sun, moon or other stars, there is nothing wrong with assuming that they were in their usual positions. What we can't assume is that the shepherds saw something that only the wise men mentioned.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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You have some wise men who claim they saw something that they called a "star". You have no corroborating witnesses. Pay attention. That's what I've been saying - it wasn't a comet or a star. It was an astrological sign - "when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars", that sort of thing. If it had been a physical star, somebody would have seen it, and there's no evidence that anybody did.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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I'm old. I was remembering the song.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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The wise men were sent to Bethlehem. There's no reason to think they didn't meet Jesus there.Herod would have waited for them to report back for some time. Then he would have waited for some more time before he decided what to do.When he finally did order the slaughter of the innocents, he didn't know exactly when Jesus was born so he needed a fairly wide margin of error to make sure he got the right baby. He must have been fairly certain that Jesus was much less than two years old.Going by the text alone, Mary and Joseph were in Bethlehem for a month or so and the wise men found them there. The slaughter of the innocents would have been maybe a few months later.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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