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Author Topic:   Here be my problem with "God"
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3665 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 7 of 106 (68530)
11-22-2003 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by White Robes
11-22-2003 10:59 AM


Heaven & Hell
Organized Christian religion states that one enters heaven only by accepting Jesus Christ. I have some questions I would appreciate well thought out rational answers to:
1) What about the billions plus who in past ages and to the present have never heard of Jesus? Do they go to hell also?
2) Since "Good works" won't get me into heaven does that mean I can go to church, pray, accept Jesus and ignore any good works. After all the good works will do nothing to get me into heaven.
3) Suppose a person accepts Jesus, doesn't do a damned thing in the way of Good works, goes to heaven and has to listen to some one in hell who, for what ever reason, never accepted Jesus or never heard of him but spent his or her entire life helping their fellow humans and doing good deeds. Sounds suspeciously like good deed are for naught but ass kissing will get you into heaven.
4) What of babies and little children who die young? Do they end up in hell with the real crud of society?
5) What does hell accomplish? The evil deeds are done, the evil doer can do no more evil and punishment will accomplish absolutley nothing.
6) Hell sounds suspeciously like extorsion and heaven like bribery.
7) A human mother or father LOVES and PROTECTS their children irregardless of whether their children love them. They would never send their children into a place like hell. Why would God, who is supposed to be loving,infinitely more intelligent react in such a primative and savage manner?
Do you think that maybe heaven and hell are devices for controlling people and that the real message of Jesus Christ is about reforming not only Judism but humankind?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by White Robes, posted 11-22-2003 10:59 AM White Robes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Phat, posted 01-18-2004 4:13 PM Charles Munroe has not replied

  
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3665 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 8 of 106 (68536)
11-22-2003 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by White Robes
11-20-2003 8:33 PM


God could use an alarm clock
According to traditional interpretation of Genesis, thanks to Bishop Usher, the world came into being around 4,004 BC. Adam and Eve messed up shortly thereafter. God gets bent out of shape and evicts Adam and Eve. Serpent stays.
1,656 years later, God having failed to sterilize Adam or Eve, evil has flourished to the point that God decides action needs to be taken and God takes drastic action and drowns untold multitudes including babies.
1,100 years later God finally wakes up to the fact that humanity needs some instructions on how to conduct itself; like maybe that should have been done 2,750 years ago. So God gives humans the 10 commandments. Well to the Isrealis at least who promoptly do nothing to spread the word for the nest 1,100 years.
Finally 1,100 years later God realizes that the 10 aren't doing the trick. They leave out rape, slavery, segregation, hatred, compassion, love, anti-war and many other things. So God sends his son down to humans. Son proves to have far more on the ball than the old man. Rewrites 10 commandments with one sentence "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Zealot - Don't interpret this as God Bashing; it is pointing out text that implies God has no more intelligence than the village idiot and thus the text is sorely in need of reinterpretation or needs to be thrown out altogether.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by White Robes, posted 11-20-2003 8:33 PM White Robes has not replied

  
Charles Munroe
Member (Idle past 3665 days)
Posts: 40
From: Simi Valley, CA USA
Joined: 09-07-2003


Message 44 of 106 (79446)
01-19-2004 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by White Robes
11-24-2003 8:05 PM


Reply to White Robe
I appreciate your effort in providing a long missive reporting your answers to my questions. Unfortunately you haven't really answered anything and avoided answering the most important key question " What about those that never heard the message of Jesus? Do they go to hell?" Fundamentalist Christianity would infer that the answer is yes; an answer which borders on the insane.
Sin did not enter the world or infect humans because of an act of two people thousands of years ago; it was already there in the form of the serpent. Who made the serpent; surely not Adam or Eve. If the Bible is to be taken absolutely literal the answer would be 'through the incompetence of God who made Satan and allowed him freedom to act'. If there had not been a Satan in the Garden of Eden we would not be having this discussion. Use your logic and think things through rather than spouting doctrine that in of itself makes no sense.
The idea that Jesus was a reformer is far more logical than acceptance of the doctrine that one gets into heaven only through accepting him. Jesus as a teacher showing the way to reform humanity is logical. A literal reading of text in the fundamentalist fashion leads one to the irrational conclusion that God is incompetent, and a failure who has made a mess of things. Accepting that God is not a failure, and is rational, requires the dismissal of nonsensical interpretations and a view of Jesus as one of many avatars who down through history have tried to show humnakind a better way of behavior.
Think about that idea for awhile and make a reply that is well thought out and rational. Years ago I engaged in talks with Communists and I could never get them to tell me what they perwsonally thought. It was always a waving of the little Red book and "Chairman Mao says--". Is there a possibility that you are doing the same except waving a Bible and saying 'the prohets say ---'?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by White Robes, posted 11-24-2003 8:05 PM White Robes has not replied

  
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