Source of biblical flood water?

Slightly off-topic as it doesn`t deal with the source of the water, but I`ve never seen it argued what the effect of a mountain-deep body of water, under gravitational influence from the moon , could do to the Earth`s precession. Wouldn`t the massive bulge, over a year,cause the planet to wander off course? Unless, of course, there was a Great Guy in the Sky putting a finger on Earth to correct the imbalance.

Hey Nighttrain, even if we have a mountain deep of water covering the Earth, you still wouldn't have a bulge because of the moon's gravity. That's not how the tides work.

so i will.

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Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

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i'll get the fountains in a sec. first, the windows in heaven. what's heaven?

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Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven.

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firmament. funny word. a literal translation renders something to extent of "expanse" (ala the jps version). but "firmament" correctly connotates the sense of hardness, a beaten and strong quality (the root of the word).what does this firmament do?

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Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

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Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so.

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it divides the water above from the water below.it's a giant half-spherical vault that is the top of the sky. the heavens. heaven. it makes a pocket of air in which we live. it keeps the water above away from the water below. it is the first essential act of creation. if god were to undo his work, he'd simply let the two expanses of water touch again. (a "flood")this is exactly what happens in the genesis 6 and 7. god is unmaking his creation. he opens or creates windows in the sky, and the water that's above pour in. he also unplugs the whatever is stopping the waters below. he's bringing the two waters that were first divided in creation back together.

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Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

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furthermore, these waters were always here, before the earth. some have suggested that god isn't technically responsible for the creation of land either, but i don't think that's right. (his "let the..." etc command is the same as for the animals) well, for one, nasa would have to be a hoax. as well as magellan. the explorer, not the spacecraft. basically, it makes the earth flat, like an inside-out snowdome. a solid arch keeping the water that's just outside our atmosphere from coming in. we would not be able to get outside of our atmosphere. (want to know why the tower of babel was threatening to god?)this, btw, is the literal reading. that's just what the text says. and this is the traditional hebrew reading. making up something about sub-crust layers of water and vapor canopies ignores the fundamental basis for creation, the great deep of genesis 1:2. a creationist ought not to subscribe to these things and claim to be for a literal interpretation of the bible. they neither jive with modern science nor scripture.and scripture does not fit very well with reality.

Or "awl bidness" as the old-timers call it. Me too.

Hi, Lammy,living far from a beach might have coloured your views, but here goes
One view
What Causes High Tide and Low Tide? Why Are There Two Tides Each Day? | HowStuffWorks The opposite
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/bobalien99/moongone.htm The Techie talk
http://www.co-ops.nos.noaa.gov/restles3.html

The second reference you gave is, I am pretty darned sure wrong.It has been rather a lot of years since I read anything on this (half the people here were probably not born) but the reason for the two tides is NOT because the Sun is added in with the Moon.IIRC the sun's gravity is a rather minor part of the tides.The two tides are because there is one side of the earth where the Moon pull is somewhat stronger and the other where it is weaker.The Earth and Moon revolve around their common center of gravity. This means that other parts are experienceing additional forces. Dammed if I can remember the details.I would expect that Sylas will jump in with the complete details at any minute. I don't think this is worth the effort to google.Without reading back over the thread isn't this about tides in a flooded world? My understanding is that they will not be bigger because the ocean is deeper. The bulge would be about the same size on top of the deeper ocean. In addtion, without land masses to stop the motion of the bulge around the rotating earth I think the tides would be more uniform and much, much lower than the high ones experienced in some parts of the world now.

In fact, that is precisely what some creationists DO argue. I call it the "Billiard Ball Earth Hypothesis". Basically, to cover the entire Earth with a minimum 15 cubits of water it is only necessary to assume that the maximum elevation to be covered was about the height of a smallish sand dune. Of course, I find it unlikely the ancient Hebrews were that ignorant. After all, the Mount Lebanon massif has a peak (Qornet es-Sauda) at around 3090m, and Mount Sinai/Jebel Musa runs about 2285m, both of which they knew about - so a literal flood in their eyes would have had to be at least 15 cubits higher than Qornet es-Sauda - which would tend to falsify the Billiard Ball Earth right there.

The only criteria that believers count on is the idea that the Bible...or at least parts of it...are a sort of Divine Wisdom. Not too many people argue that the bible was written by men. The question? Is the wisdom contained within an accurate prognosis on the behavior of humanity. If humanity can be shown to be influenced by forces outside of our bodies, a postulate could be made that outside forces can also influence other events in nature.Bible says: Quite naturally, this scripture makes no sense. Was the earth formed out of water? The source used here is by God's word Scoffers can be seen in this post, however. To wit: The Bible does mention a dragon, although not a pink one. Are we talking special rights, here? Theory: by Gods word.
1) How do we know it is Gods word?
2) Can any of it be tested against human nature?

I am not sure if I recall corectly or not. but the earth attracts the moon and the moon attracts the earth. The forces balance at a point within the Earth but not at its center,thus the Eath and moon revolve around this common point.The water closer to the moon is imbalanced and flows towards it while the water on the other side is also imbalanced and flows away from it.since water also has properties of a fluid these motions are altered by elevation changes of the seafloor.I will try to track down the source of the info{Six Easy Pieces}.
Anyway I will try to get the flood sources nailed down and get to work on some criticisms.

Well, my old age must be setting in

PhatboyWell we have gotten little accomplished in the way of determining the source of the flood waters around which the story of Noah,which is staunchly defended around here by several posters, is without basis in fact. I fail to see what the behavior of humanity has to do with the flood waters physical location and subsequent physical action upon the planet itself.Also I would ask how you postulate the existence of something that that influences events in nature without itself implementing record of that change.Where are all the people who argued vehemently to the veracity of the story of Noah?

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And since you know you cannot see yourself,
so well as by reflection, I, your glass,
will modestly discover to yourself,
that of yourself which you yet know not of

I have never felt that I was a Biblical literalist. Did the story of Noah actually happen? Yes, in a theological sense. There was actually one righteous group of people. How they were righteous I do not know because All have sinned and All fall short of the glory of God.I never understood how God would bother wiping out most of the people whom He knew were predisposed to be evil and starting over in such a seemingly inefficient way. Why save the animals? Why not merely create more? Why step in and supernaturally create a Universe...(which I see no reason why He did not nor cannot do) and then have seemingly minor problems such as a rebellious humanity get wiped out by a global flood and the animals placed in a wooden boat?? (Where did they put the termites??)So....if the Flood story (and perhaps the Creation story) were parables...what are they trying to say?Here is one theory.(and one scriptural example) To Biblical Theists, human behavior is predictable. It is intrinsically selfish. It is intrinsically greedy. It is intrinsically self preserving.Biblical theology tells us different. Deny yourself. Consider others greater than yourself. Be a Servant to others in order to be Great in the eyes of Heaven.The supreme irony? Christians themselves do not do as their theology teaches them to do. Perhaps this validates the very points made about human nature.The means for change is there, for a Theist. They merely (merely! ) have to deny themselves in order to find true life and fullfillment.It is THIS belief and aspect of theology that differs from the naturalist theories of human development.

the sun does actually have SOMETHING to do with it, but not how that link described.when the moon is directly between the earth and the sun, the high tides are higher. when the earth is between the sun and the moon, the high tides are lower. when the two are at right angles, the high and low tides are a little closer together.these effects are not usually very big, depending on where you live.

but the tower builder were NOT selfish. they worked as a whole, together. maybe god doesn't know if he can get it right twice. i mean, he does change the ten commandments the second time around... but you are right though. it doesn't strictly make any sense. can't god kill anyone he wants to anyways?i think it has to do more with the symbolic nature of un-making creation, and borrowing a babylonian story. there was a thread for that, called "if genesis is metaphorical, what's the metaphor?"there are not literal meanings and truths you can get out of the story. but i'm not sure that's what the authors meant to do.

There must be some difficulty here since I have not had a bite from even one biblical literalist concerning the OP. Is it possible that we have no one willing to back up the flood as a real event or do they have nothing to say?