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Author Topic:   The name for the point where a probability changes
Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 186 (171698)
12-27-2004 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Syamsu
12-27-2004 9:17 AM


The event where probabilities resolve into actual results (in the case of an election it's the counting of the votes) is often called the 'realization' of the probability.
Generally you describe it as the event or process that changes a possibility into an outcome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Syamsu, posted 12-27-2004 9:17 AM Syamsu has replied

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Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 186 (171891)
12-28-2004 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Syamsu
12-28-2004 12:40 AM


Re: not necessarily
I think you misunderstood him. Probabilities are often just generalisations done when you can't model the thing you are examining exactly.
Take throwing dice, for example.
The path the dice follows when thrown isn't random. It depends on the way the thrower move their hands, the effect of gravity, the surfaces it hits, and so on.
However (and this is what chaos theory deals with) it's REALLY REALLY hard to figure out what results you will get, and people generally don't have the skills needed to get specific results when throwing dice, so it seems to us as if it's random.
In other situations, such as poker, the idea is that some knowledge is hidden from the players and as such while the cards aren't random they are unknown, and thus act as if they are random.
At no point in the throw of the dice does the laws of physics suddenly stop applying. Hence probability math are a generalisation of the real world, but it does NOT always work the other way.

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 Message 14 by Syamsu, posted 12-28-2004 12:40 AM Syamsu has not replied

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Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 186 (172984)
01-02-2005 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by PurpleYouko
01-02-2005 2:44 AM


Re: Another strange slant on probability
I think this is more of a problem with the way standard computers generate random numbers. That is, they're not really random at all.
Maybe if you repeated the tests with a true random number generator you'd get different results.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by PurpleYouko, posted 01-02-2005 2:44 AM PurpleYouko has replied

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Melchior
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 186 (172987)
01-02-2005 10:19 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Syamsu
01-02-2005 12:14 AM


Re: declaring victory? just a little premature, and based on false logic
Syamsu writes:
Quite meaningless references to logical fallacies, I'm not impressed.
The special thing of realization is the special thing of choice, it may turn out differently. Heaven or hell, as God decides.
Well I can foresee that in the end all realizations will be described by science as between 1 and 0, and constructs of between 1 and 0. But until science get's at that point, all scientists will shudder in fear for accepting what in essence much equates to decison, which currently has more associative meaning with heaven or hell, as it has with 1 or zero.
I guess the problem here is that you can argue what sort of world we live in. We have a few choises:
A - A basically deterministic world where at least physical things like gambling are just a chain of causes and effects.
In this case, probability is just an useful tool to us, but is just a model with no deeper insight in how things really are.
B - A world where events on our scale are completely random and it's impossible to know what will happen until it happens.
In this case, probability is still an useful tool to us, and a way to accurately describe the truth of our reality.
C - A world where events are deterministic but humans have a non-deterministic mind with at least some random elements.
In this case, probability is still an useful tool to us, but it is completely missleading as a way to describe the world around us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Syamsu, posted 01-02-2005 12:14 AM Syamsu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Syamsu, posted 01-02-2005 11:58 AM Melchior has not replied
 Message 74 by JustinC, posted 01-02-2005 6:35 PM Melchior has not replied

  
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