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Author Topic:   Before the Big Bang
happy_atheist
Member (Idle past 4944 days)
Posts: 326
Joined: 08-21-2004


Message 24 of 311 (161927)
11-20-2004 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by TheClashFan
11-19-2004 11:33 PM


Again i've not read all of the posts, so ignore this if it's repeating something already said...
TheClashFan writes:
Before the Big Bang, what was there?
The problem with us humans trying to understand the universe is our severe limitations posed by language. Our concept of time leads us to think of time as something totally seperate to anything else, and something totally linear. We percieve some sort of eternal line, and events are hung on this line. The problem comes when our concepts don't match up with reality, so we come up with questions that don't actually make sense.
With time, it isn't linear and it isn't seperate from the universe. It is as ingrained a part of the universe as anything else. There really is no meaning to the term "before the universe" as far as our models of the universe go. Imagine a man stood on the north pole and asking the local polar bear which direction north is. The question can't be answered, because every direction is south. There is no "north".
I have heard of theories in which time does extend before the big bang, but I have no idea how scientific they are or what evidence there is for them. Unfortunately they are likely unfalsifiable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by TheClashFan, posted 11-19-2004 11:33 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by TheClashFan, posted 11-21-2004 3:02 PM happy_atheist has replied

happy_atheist
Member (Idle past 4944 days)
Posts: 326
Joined: 08-21-2004


Message 33 of 311 (162096)
11-21-2004 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by TheClashFan
11-21-2004 3:02 PM


The thing is time is no different to distance, it is just a degree of freedom in spacetime. When spacetime is reduced to a singularity then there is neither distance nor time. There are no degrees of freedom, no way to move position in space or time. The only things that are man made are the arbitrary division of space and time that we use, not the property that they measure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by TheClashFan, posted 11-21-2004 3:02 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by TheClashFan, posted 11-21-2004 8:43 PM happy_atheist has replied

happy_atheist
Member (Idle past 4944 days)
Posts: 326
Joined: 08-21-2004


Message 40 of 311 (162330)
11-22-2004 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by TheClashFan
11-21-2004 8:43 PM


The problem is that we are bound by our common sense, our preconcieved views of what the universe is like. We're only able to directly experience a very small part of it, and its just really hard to imagine things that we have no way to directly experience. There's a wealth of things that go completely against what we would expect. There are likely 11 dimensions to the universe, but I honestly have no idea how to visualise more than 3. Thankfully maths doesn't care about things like that.
Whats more, the topic you picked has no definte answer yet anyway. The point of the bigbang defies current understanding because Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are as yet incompatible. In most cases that is irrelevent because gravity has no effect on the quantum level, but at the point of the big bang the gravity is so strong that you can no longer ignore it. The best scientists in the world dream of uniting the two

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by TheClashFan, posted 11-21-2004 8:43 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by TheClashFan, posted 11-22-2004 9:48 PM happy_atheist has not replied

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