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Author Topic:   Before the Big Bang
TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 311 (161684)
11-19-2004 11:33 PM


From what my science teachers have told me, the Big Bang was when a small grouping of hydrogen and whatnot exploded. I am sure that that was not the only thing that happened, but here is my question. Before the Big Bang, what was there?
Understand that I am a Creationist, and a young one, but still, it seems to me that the grouping had to be IN something before it exploded and made the universe. Speaking of which, that means that the universe is IN something, correct? The Big Bang theory to me makes little sense since science can say little and prove little, though I don't doubt that the farther you go into space, the father back in time you go. Does anyone have an answer or comment to this?

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 1:06 AM TheClashFan has replied
 Message 24 by happy_atheist, posted 11-20-2004 6:54 PM TheClashFan has replied
 Message 25 by 1.61803, posted 11-21-2004 11:04 AM TheClashFan has replied
 Message 61 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 12-02-2004 5:37 AM TheClashFan has not replied
 Message 65 by mihkel4397, posted 02-15-2005 9:54 AM TheClashFan has not replied

AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 2 of 311 (161685)
11-19-2004 11:35 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 3 of 311 (161718)
11-20-2004 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by TheClashFan
11-19-2004 11:33 PM


TheClashFan
Well the big bang is doubtless a poor choice of words since the event is hardly like any explosion that you may be familiar with.
The evidence is fairly good though there is much work to do to work out the full meachanisms and likely will be for a long time.
. Before the Big Bang, what was there?
This is the question that is hotly debated and much work is going into resolving this.However the common concern is the validity of asking what happened before the BB since space and time are inextricably linked as space-time.This means that spacetime did not exist before the BB so it becomes meaningless to talk about the time concept of before since no event in the time sense occured until the BB.
Understand that I am a Creationist, and a young one, but still, it seems to me that the grouping had to be IN something before it exploded and made the universe.
This is a common misconception because the something you consider us to be 'in' also is a part of the BB.Everything in the universe space-time and everything in it included did not exist before the BB but rather came into existence at the point of origin of the BB.
When you look at the stars you are also looking back in time due to the speed of light being limited.Since space and time are linked together the greater the distance the farther back in time you see.When we look further back we find that the universe follows in stages from simpler{far out} to more complex{closer}as we would expect of a universe that came from this big bang.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by TheClashFan, posted 11-19-2004 11:33 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by TheClashFan, posted 11-20-2004 12:41 PM sidelined has not replied
 Message 136 by numnuts, posted 06-20-2007 5:54 PM sidelined has not replied

TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 311 (161804)
11-20-2004 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by sidelined
11-20-2004 1:06 AM


Yes, my IPS teacher says that everything there is now was in the big bang grouping, but it is still difficult to picture a grouping of elements without it being in something. Thank you for answering, however.

Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 1:06 AM sidelined has not replied

Itachi Uchiha
Member (Idle past 5614 days)
Posts: 272
From: mayaguez, Puerto RIco
Joined: 06-21-2003


Message 5 of 311 (161811)
11-20-2004 1:01 PM


Things in common
The big bang and the genesis creation let us know that before either of them happpened space-time itself didn't exist. For creationists that believe in eternal life we know that there's another dimension thats spiritual thats outside of our space-time universe. It's the realm of God,Satan , angels, demons etc. For evos, especially those that do not believe in the other dimension, are the ones that can get to a lot of different theories by the interpretation of their data. We should let the debate of what was before the big bang to them since we already have our beliefs

Ponlo todo en las manos de Dios y que se joda el mundo. El principio de la sabiduria es el temor a Jehova

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by TheClashFan, posted 11-20-2004 1:49 PM Itachi Uchiha has replied
 Message 8 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 2:09 PM Itachi Uchiha has replied
 Message 48 by TheLiteralist, posted 11-28-2004 12:00 AM Itachi Uchiha has not replied

TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 311 (161821)
11-20-2004 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Itachi Uchiha
11-20-2004 1:01 PM


Re: Things in common
I never thought of it in the manner. What an interesting perspective to have sprititual beings in another dimension. Thank you very much for such an interesting insight on it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 11-20-2004 1:01 PM Itachi Uchiha has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 11-20-2004 2:06 PM TheClashFan has replied

Itachi Uchiha
Member (Idle past 5614 days)
Posts: 272
From: mayaguez, Puerto RIco
Joined: 06-21-2003


Message 7 of 311 (161831)
11-20-2004 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by TheClashFan
11-20-2004 1:49 PM


Re: Things in common
Remember that god's dimension is outside our 3d physical world. Its something like a 6d universe we cant comprehend. I'm sure you have taken basic math courses where they have explained to you what functions are. We graph function so that we can understand what they mean better. We see a graph in 2d or 3d and we can understand whats going on because they correspond to our dimension or a lower dimension. We can never see or even begin to understand a coordinate system with more than three dimensions so we are limeted. If God is in a 6d universe (this is just an example i'm not proclaiming that God lives in 6d world) he can see and understand coordinate systems of 2,3,4,5, and 6 dimensions but since we are limited to three we cant see or understand anything outside these three. So therefore we cant see God

Ponlo todo en las manos de Dios y que se joda el mundo. El principio de la sabiduria es el temor a Jehova

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by TheClashFan, posted 11-20-2004 1:49 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by TheClashFan, posted 11-20-2004 2:17 PM Itachi Uchiha has not replied
 Message 10 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 2:20 PM Itachi Uchiha has not replied
 Message 143 by mark24, posted 06-21-2007 11:47 AM Itachi Uchiha has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 8 of 311 (161834)
11-20-2004 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Itachi Uchiha
11-20-2004 1:01 PM


Re: Things in common
jazzlover_PR
For creationists that believe in eternal life we know that there's another dimension thats spiritual thats outside of our space-time universe
You know nothing of the sort! You assume or place faith in such but you do not know.Without your belief that something is beyond this world your arguement falls apart and I would maintain that by this reasoning it is all in your head.

"Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color."
--Don Hirschberg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 11-20-2004 1:01 PM Itachi Uchiha has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by TheClashFan, posted 11-20-2004 2:21 PM sidelined has replied
 Message 13 by Hangdawg13, posted 11-20-2004 2:33 PM sidelined has replied
 Message 21 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 11-20-2004 6:06 PM sidelined has replied
 Message 80 by simple, posted 02-16-2005 2:56 AM sidelined has replied
 Message 122 by DivineBeginning, posted 11-27-2006 9:38 PM sidelined has not replied

TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 311 (161838)
11-20-2004 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Itachi Uchiha
11-20-2004 2:06 PM


Re: Things in common
I have only taken Algebra 1, but from what you have explained, it makes perfect sense. My mum says that your right and that she remembers reading somewhere in the Bible about God being in a place not where we are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 11-20-2004 2:06 PM Itachi Uchiha has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 10 of 311 (161840)
11-20-2004 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Itachi Uchiha
11-20-2004 2:06 PM


Re: Things in common
jazzlover_PR
Remember that god's dimension is outside our 3d physical world.
Just to correct a mistake here we exist in a four dimensional world.Three dimension of space and one of time all linked together.
We can never see or even begin to understand a coordinate system with more than three dimensions
Really? We can only specify the position of an airplane in flight by 4 dimensions.
If God is in a 6d universe (this is just an example i'm not proclaiming that God lives in 6d world) he can see and understand coordinate systems of 2,3,4,5, and 6 dimensions but since we are limited to three we cant see or understand anything outside these three. So therefore we cant see God.
Since you cannot understand or see anything outside of our universe then how would you explain you assertions that a god does exist that you can neither see nor understand?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Itachi Uchiha, posted 11-20-2004 2:06 PM Itachi Uchiha has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Hangdawg13, posted 11-20-2004 2:43 PM sidelined has replied

TheClashFan
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 311 (161842)
11-20-2004 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by sidelined
11-20-2004 2:09 PM


Re: Things in common
We know in our hearts. The hearts that belive in God even when we cannot always see or hear Him. Again, beliving is rarely seeing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 2:09 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 2:23 PM TheClashFan has replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 12 of 311 (161845)
11-20-2004 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by TheClashFan
11-20-2004 2:21 PM


Re: Things in common
I will ask you the same question I asked of jazzlover then.What do you mean by "in our hearts"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by TheClashFan, posted 11-20-2004 2:21 PM TheClashFan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by TheClashFan, posted 11-20-2004 5:45 PM sidelined has not replied

Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 750 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 13 of 311 (161850)
11-20-2004 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by sidelined
11-20-2004 2:09 PM


Re: Things in common
You know nothing of the sort! You assume or place faith in such but you do not know.Without your belief that something is beyond this world your arguement falls apart and I would maintain that by this reasoning it is all in your head.
Sidelined, how do you KNOW that we are having this conversation? If you cannot explain to me how you KNOW that we are having this converstaion, I maintain that this whole world you believe to be real is all in your "head".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 2:09 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 3:25 PM Hangdawg13 has replied
 Message 16 by lfen, posted 11-20-2004 3:26 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 750 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 14 of 311 (161857)
11-20-2004 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by sidelined
11-20-2004 2:20 PM


Re: Things in common
Since you cannot understand or see anything outside of our universe then how would you explain you assertions that a god does exist that you can neither see nor understand?
Are you still continuing with this silly argument? What do you mean by "outside" our universe when outside deals with space? Just because God has "access" to an infinite number of dimensions He wishes to create, does not mean he cannot reveal himself to us in our known dimensions.
Your statement itself holds three assertions:
1) God is unable to "enter" the dimensions he created for us,
2) We cannot know ANYTHING about God if we cannot know EVERYTHING about God, and
3) God has never in the past and will never reveal himself to anyone. None of these you can prove.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 2:20 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by sidelined, posted 11-20-2004 3:33 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5907 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 15 of 311 (161869)
11-20-2004 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Hangdawg13
11-20-2004 2:33 PM


Re: Things in common
Hangdawg
Sidelined, how do you KNOW that we are having this conversation? If you cannot explain to me how you KNOW that we are having this converstaion, I maintain that this whole world you believe to be real is all in your "head".
I am not the one claiming to know something my good man.However,if you wish please start a thread that we may persue the topic please do so.The admins are probably tiring of the topic drift and it is better to take this elsewhere OK?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Hangdawg13, posted 11-20-2004 2:33 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Hangdawg13, posted 11-20-2004 5:26 PM sidelined has not replied

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