Is there any such thing as an absolute?

I like your answer and your idea of conditions, but I think you're confusing IS there an absolute answer and can we KNOW our answer is THE absolute answer.For example, take a simple question like "Is there a god?" Now there is an absolute answer to that question, the answer would be absolutely true; it is either YES, there is a god or No, there is not a god. The answer to that question is not subjective, it does not depend on my opinion or your opinion or a vote of the people, it is an absolute truth - either there IS a god or IS NOT a god.Now, if I say "Yes, there is a god" then your question becomes "Do we know enough about the system to determine that 'yes' is the correct answer to the question." This is where the subjectivity comes in. You may say "No, we do not know enough about the system to determine if that is correct." while I may say "Yes, we do know enough to say that answer is correct." However, neither opinion changes the reality of the actual correct answer.I would also question if we can ever be absolutely certain that we know we understand ANY system well enough to put it in the "Yes" category? Part of the problem is that reality is an abstract construct, not a concrete, physical entity. I like Socrates cave analogy (at least in part). We only see a shadow of reality and understanding of reality becomes a subjective experience. Certainly, some things we have a much clearer picture of than others, but they can still be viewed in a subjective manner.The age of the earth is one such example. There is only one absolute answer (for simplicity's sake, either old or young). Those of us that hold to an old earth view would say that those that have a young earth view are denying reality. And those that hold a young earth view would say that they have been given the absolute answer in advance and that anything that contradicts that absolute answer is an illusion.But in the end, none of us has access to the ABSOLUTE answer, we only try to understand the representation of reality we have in the best possible manner we can.Even something like mathematics. I don't think we REALLY understand WHY mathematics works, but it works so consistently that we can rely on it to provide absolute answers. 2 + 2 will always equal 4 , but WHY?So bottom line:Is there such thing as an absolute truth? - YesCan we know what that absolute answer is? - apply the subjective exercise involving our knowledge of the system.HBD

I would suggest that there is two ways to view absolutes. On one hand there is a functional absolute. This is where we live everyday. I would feel comfortable say we are absolutely certain that the sun is fusing hydrogen into heavier elements. So many scientists have worked on this question and have produced such convincing arguments that I feel it safe to function as if it is absolutely true.I don't see that this means that we have to hold on to that theory dogmatically, and reject any evidence that may contradict such a position. It means that we function in on a day to day basis as if it is absolute (not that this particular issue comes into play in our daily lives very often).Now, on the other hand, there is a philosophical absolute. This is what allows us to be skeptical and to acknowledge that our absolute position may be wrong. However, if we live here, we can never be sure about anything and everything becomes relative; that is no way to live. Or conversely, if we exclude this philosophical recognition that our absolute position could be wrong, we live as if our absolute position is absolute and we become dogmatic and inflexible. So ... for a question like "Is there a god?" I can personally say "Yes, there is absolutely is a god." while still recognizing that I could very well be wrong. However, I live as if it is an absolute certainty. However, when asked "Is my characterization of God the absolute correct characterization of what God is like?" Now my confidence level begins to fall somewhat and I begin to use answers like "I believe ...", "According to what I understand ..." etc. But I still may live like my understanding is absolutely correct.So I agree that doubt should have, maybe not a vanishing point, but a place where we can live like it is absolute, even though we should always be wiling to question our position.HBDEdited by herebedragons, : typo

I probably shouldn't have used math as an example because I am not ready to defend it. However, there is a whole philosophy of mathematics with several different perspectives. I don't think it is as simple as how we define the terms. Perhaps it is that mathematics is descriptive of systems in the universe, and it is those systems that I am really referring to. I will have to give it some thought, but I can retract the whole line of thinking since it is kind of irrelevant to my point anyway. OK. But the issue is not the simple logic, it is the assumptions we have made in forming our logical statement. ALL hats are green? Understand you mean this as a simple example, but again, the problem is not the logic but the assumptions that come with it. But ... did you really define reality?HBD

However, there is an "absolute" standard (at least for the meter) defined by some arbitrary distance. All measurement devices need to trace back to that standard. This illustrates the actual idea of absolutes, where the idea of an absolute is contrasted to a relative standard. For example, if I bring my homemade tape measure to measure Lincoln's hat and said it was 13" and you brought your homemade tape measure and declared it to be 16" who would be right? We need to compare our measurements - that is our tape measures - to the standard. Each of us having our own standard for an inch is totally worthless when trying to agree on the height of Lincoln's hat.But, the discussion about absolutes usually revolves around moral issues rather than the accuracy of measured values. But like measured values we do need some kind of standard, do we not? Can we all measure moral issues with our own tape measure? If so, then how do we know who is right? Do we choose an arbitrary measure? Is there some standard that applies to all humans regardless of what you or I think? Just like the standard for the meter defines that length of measurement.This is what I suggest cannot be known with absolute certainty. How do I know that my standard is THE right standard? I don't, but the answer to that does not depend on what others think the standard is, but it depends on what the standard actually is or how the standard is defined.The other point to this is that I think most of us live as if the standard we have is THE absolute standard. Rather than reiterate all of it, see Message 50 for my take on this. I would say that we live with many "functional" absolutes, while still maintaining that our position could possibly be wrong. Isn't that usually where the problem lies - when one says that they know that their position is absolutely the right one and there is no way they could possibly be wrong? So is the problem actually that there IS a standard is it what that standard is?HBD