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Author Topic:   Is there any such thing as an absolute?
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 8 of 109 (718199)
02-05-2014 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
02-05-2014 8:07 AM


RAZ writes:
You are just playing probabilities.
In the absence of certainty what is there but (evidence based) estimation of likelihood?
Is there any knowledge we can possess which isn't either tautological or "playing probabilities"....? Can you give an example of such?
Proto writes:
So the question is 'Is there any such thing as an absolute?'
RAZ writes:
Yes, but they tend to be tautologies
Is there any knowledge that isn't tautological in your view and how certain of such knowledge can we be?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 02-05-2014 8:07 AM RAZD has not replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 95 of 109 (720468)
02-24-2014 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by ringo
02-21-2014 10:46 AM


Approximating/Verisimilitude
Ringo writes:
But it does mean that no observer can know what those absolute qualities are - and a group of observers can only approximate what those qualities are.
If we have know way of knowing what the absolute qualities are what's the point of insisting that there "are" absolute qualities?
In order to maintain that some approximations are better than others perhaps?
Verisimilitude is a reasonably widespread concept in the philosophy of science.
Even if you cannot ever achieve truth, even if you cannot know what "truth" is, that doesn't stop some answers being better approximations to it than others.
If you are going to talk about "approximations" you need to decide what it is you are approximating...... Right?

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 Message 77 by ringo, posted 02-21-2014 10:46 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by ringo, posted 02-24-2014 10:49 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 102 of 109 (720491)
02-24-2014 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by ringo
02-24-2014 10:49 AM


Re: Approximating/Verisimilitude
Ringo writes:
"Better" approximations are more precise approximations, not necessarily more accurate approximations.
My desk is 1.7543698765423410981666 centimeters long
My desk is about a meter and a half long.
One of these statements is highly precise but a very poor approximation. The other statement is very approximate but far more accurate.
Which of the two statements is the better approximation?
Being roughly accurate trumps being precisely wrong.
It's accuracy that we should be aiming for. Without it precision is really rather worthless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by ringo, posted 02-24-2014 10:49 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by ringo, posted 02-24-2014 11:30 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 104 of 109 (720497)
02-24-2014 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by ringo
02-24-2014 11:30 AM


Re: Approximating/Verisimilitude
Biblical creationists make highly precise calculations about the age of the Earth. Down to the number of days in some cases.
Science tells us an age of the Earth that is nowhere near as precise as that.
Which is the better approximation?
Ringo writes:
Precision can be adjusted toward usefulness.
Only if it is accurate. Being ever more precisely wrong is entirely pointless. Being ever more precise is only of value if combined with a degree of accuracy.
Ringo writes:
On the contrary, it's usefulness that we should be aiming for.
More accurate theories are more useful......
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by ringo, posted 02-24-2014 11:30 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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