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Author Topic:   Is there any such thing as an absolute?
Phat
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Posts: 18354
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 58 of 109 (719686)
02-16-2014 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Stile
02-12-2014 9:56 AM


Reality and Religious Beliefs
Stile writes:
If the point is that something must be absolute "within everything" in order to actually be absolute... then it is trivially easy to show that this is impossible. For anything that you can claim to be absolute "within reality" I can simply make something up that is the opposite "within Stile's imagination" and therefore it isn't absolute "within everything."
Taking this back into the realm of faith/belief....
I believe that Gods reality is an unchangeable absolute, but due to the allowance of satan and alternate "reality" or perception we are allowed to make up opposites.
This of course was initially made possible by God having allowed free will.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18354
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 61 of 109 (719805)
02-18-2014 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Stile
02-18-2014 11:07 AM


Re: Ice cream makes it better
In essence, are you suggesting that a personal decision to believe an absolute way is better than an edict or demand compelling you to do so?
Is it a human right to decide whether something is absolute or not in terms of belief?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Stile, posted 02-18-2014 11:07 AM Stile has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18354
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 69 of 109 (720105)
02-20-2014 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by ringo
02-20-2014 10:57 AM


Re: Ice cream makes it better
ringo writes:
So both truth and freedom are relative.
Oh oh...sounds like I hear another protest against being relatively unable to proclaim ones own absolute hence rendering true freewill a farce.

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 Message 68 by ringo, posted 02-20-2014 10:57 AM ringo has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18354
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 71 of 109 (720115)
02-20-2014 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by ringo
02-20-2014 11:21 AM


Should God Exist
If God exists and is the Creator of all things seen and unseen,
should He allow humans the right to be autonomous in regards to our beliefs and philosophy?
Why or why not?
As far as science goes, everything is tentative anyway...awaiting further information.
We could say that certain things are absolutes...such as the laws of gravity...assuming we allow for new absolutes to erase old absolutes as our knowledge increases.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18354
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 75 of 109 (720274)
02-21-2014 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Dogmafood
02-21-2014 9:20 AM


Absolute by definition
protoTypical writes:
That's why I made the point in the OP that if 'absolute' is something that is not relative to anything else then it is impossible by definition.
I would point out that this is a good reason why God would have hypothetically allowed an alternate reality....if for nothing else than to showcase His absoluteness. This alternate reality can be described as Satan, but it can also be described as "self". True communion allows a loss of self as the community becomes one. True selfishness would justify autonomy as a desirable trait. Does that make sense?

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18354
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 79 of 109 (720280)
02-21-2014 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by ringo
02-18-2014 11:06 AM


Re: Ice cream makes it better
ringo writes:
Relative truth sets us relatively free. If there was absolute truth, would it set us absolutely free? What is absolute freedom?
Perhaps the question: Would absolute freedom free us forGods foreknown purpose or would it free us from any interference by any entity--God or not--that we may fulfill our destiny our way?
The God that I conceive of is far wiser than I am and thus I have no problem allowing His destiny and purpose to manifest through me.
If another guy wanted to wing it entirely on his own, I would say go knock yourself out. One could argue, however, that everyone's destiny is a foreknown absolute--regardless how we arrive at that end.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18354
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 83 of 109 (720290)
02-21-2014 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by ringo
02-21-2014 11:07 AM


Re: Absolute free will
ringo writes:
My point is that a choice between a good option and a bad option is not free will.
How about a choice between a best option and a second best option?
I know I know....who judges the value of the options?
My answer? YOU DO!

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 Message 82 by ringo, posted 02-21-2014 11:07 AM ringo has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18354
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 89 of 109 (720369)
02-22-2014 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by ringo
02-21-2014 11:51 AM


Re: Absolute free will
ringo writes:
Yes indeed, which makes the choice subjective and relative.
Perhaps we only even have the option of being subjective and relative due to Gods good graces.
Complain about Him if you must...but you wouldn't even have that option were it not for Him.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18354
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 106 of 109 (720604)
02-25-2014 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by ringo
02-25-2014 10:43 AM


Theory Of "Relative" Truth=Usefulness
Ringo writes:
I'm suggesting that we should think of accuracy entirely in terms of usefulness. A map is accurate if it gets you where you want to go, even if it depicts the earth as a plane instead of a dodecahedron.
Does this mean that usefulness is the criteria for accepting any truth and that...practically speaking....any "absolutes" we humans adapt are essentially relative to the rest of the culture?

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 Message 105 by ringo, posted 02-25-2014 10:43 AM ringo has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18354
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 108 of 109 (723625)
04-04-2014 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by ringo
02-25-2014 10:53 AM


Re: Theory Of "Relative" Truth=Usefulness
Extrapolating your argument, lets say for the sake of argument that Jesus declared that He was the truth. Based on your logic, Jesus claimed that He was useful. In fact, He was the most useful way to God.
The argument, however, is this: Can any one ideology possibly be useful to all?

When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

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