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Author Topic:   Can the standard "Young Earth Creationist" model be falsified by genetics alone?
JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 127 of 161 (708607)
10-11-2013 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by NoNukes
10-11-2013 8:41 AM


AND and heat and radiation
Interestingly enough, there is a study examining exactly how much additional radiation and radiation energy would be produced by such accelerated decay rates.
OT, but Heat and radiation destroy claims of accelerated nuclear decay summarizes those results and adds the calculations of Noah's exposure to radiation from 40K in his own body. Of course the calculation depends on what scenario one proposes for acceleration of decay, but I doubt there's on in which heat and radiation aren't an insuperable problem.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2013 8:41 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by jar, posted 10-11-2013 12:23 PM JonF has not replied
 Message 129 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2013 12:38 PM JonF has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 132 of 161 (708763)
10-14-2013 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by mindspawn
10-14-2013 3:06 AM


Re: Database alignment and searching.
I need links, I need calculations
See the message immediately following the one you quoted. It doesn't exactly apply to your scenario, but it can form a basis for the calculations you are going to have to present when you get around to discussing radiometric dating.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by mindspawn, posted 10-14-2013 3:06 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 138 of 161 (708980)
10-17-2013 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by NoNukes
10-17-2013 10:18 AM


Re: Database alignment and searching.
Your RATE link is to RATE - 1. RATE - I I is at Radioisotopes and the Age of the Earth, Volume II | The Institute for Creation Research.
The ASA site is probably the best debunking site. There's lots of others.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by NoNukes, posted 10-17-2013 10:18 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 142 of 161 (709163)
10-22-2013 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by mindspawn
10-22-2013 5:47 AM


Re: Database alignment and searching.
(neutrons are known to slow down the decay of heavy isotopes)
No, they are not, at least not in any physically relevant situation.
And of course you haven't thought things through, you're just spewing any nonsense that comes into you head. If the decay of heavy isotopes has been slowed then the dates we are measuring are too young. That is, the samples would be significantly older that our measurements say they are.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by mindspawn, posted 10-22-2013 5:47 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by mindspawn, posted 10-22-2013 9:15 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 143 of 161 (709165)
10-22-2013 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by mindspawn
10-22-2013 5:47 AM


Re: Database alignment and searching.
Nonukes, that's a 444 page document. Could you kindly quote the portion that you feel is relevant
Quotes and references and discussion are in Heat and radiation destroy claims of accelerated nuclear decay. Of course you've ignored that twice already.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by mindspawn, posted 10-22-2013 5:47 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by mindspawn, posted 10-22-2013 9:10 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 147 of 161 (709186)
10-22-2013 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by mindspawn
10-22-2013 9:10 AM


Re: Database alignment and searching.
That's a whole thread. Could you kindly summarise your point and refer me to a specific link.
Obviously you didn't even bother to look. The summary is in the first message of the thread. Specific links are in that message.

This message is a reply to:
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JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 148 of 161 (709191)
10-22-2013 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by mindspawn
10-22-2013 9:15 AM


Re: Database alignment and searching.
No, they are not, at least not in any physically relevant situation.
And of course you haven't thought things through, you're just spewing any nonsense that comes into you head. If the decay of heavy isotopes has been slowed then the dates we are measuring are too young. That is, the samples would be significantly older that our measurements say they are.
I suggest you think that through. Rates are slow now. This means that they overestimate time periods when comparing ratios of parent to daughter isotopes. Without the slowdown, rocks would rapidly decay into daughter isotopes which I believe is what happened from about 4400 years ago until about 1700 years ago. (approximately).
Ah, I see. It's an incredibly stupid idea, but I see. So you think that what we see as 253 million years of decay is really 2,700 years of decay, or a factor of about 100,000 speed up.
Let's look at self-irradiation. From the link you're trying so hard to avoid, human self-irradiation today due to decay of 40K is about 100 or more μSv/year. Speeding up decay by a linear factor of 100,000 over those 2,700 years results in self-irradiation of 10 Sv/year. A 30 year old person would have been exposed to about 300 Sv. From the links in the message you are so afraid of, 4-5 Sv kills 50% of exposed people in 30 days, and 6 Sv results in a 90% death rate and more at higher levels. So we're looking at a level of self-irradiation that is on the order of 30 times the dose that kills 90% of the people. And you think that humans never noticed that high death rate from radiation poisoning with the attendant sores and vomiting and whatnot? And you believe the human race (and all other life) could survive that?
Making the decay speedup nonlinear would make it even worse.
Oh, and your scenario requires that Hezikiah's tunnel (Wikipedia) was dug long before Hezikiah reigned. Got it.
There's more. Heat. Consilience between different methods using isotopes that decay by different mechanisms. Consilience with non-radiometric methods.
It just doesn't fly.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by mindspawn, posted 10-22-2013 9:15 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 155 of 161 (709258)
10-23-2013 9:38 AM


Ignoring facts
Oh, Mindspawn...,
No comment on how your scenario would kill off pretty much all life, as documented in message 148? You're the one that's complained about sweeping statements without calculations and facts. Well, there's some calculations and facts you can't avoid.
And, of course, you are still ignoring the link in message 143. Just read the first message in the linked thread, that will show you the sort of calculations you have to do to establish your claims as viable.
Still waiting for a reference for your claim that neutrons slow radioactive decay rates. Still betting that you just made it up.

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 198 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 157 of 161 (709290)
10-24-2013 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by mindspawn
10-14-2013 3:06 AM


Re: Database alignment and searching.
I need links, I need calculations. I don't care about the source of information, if the information makes sense then I respect it.
Well, you've got links and calculations. Which you obviously don't respect and are incapable of addressing. We ride into the sunset, leaving the charnel house that mindspawn's scenario would make of Earth as the fantasy that it is.
Message 148 and Heat and radiation destroy claims of accelerated nuclear decay.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by mindspawn, posted 10-14-2013 3:06 AM mindspawn has not replied

  
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