Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 368/286 Day: 11/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Can the standard "Young Earth Creationist" model be falsified by genetics alone?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 110 of 161 (707507)
09-27-2013 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by bluegenes
04-12-2013 1:23 PM


Mendelian principles account for all the diversity we see
Without getting into the papers you link, which at the moment are over my head or at least mystifying to me. and may remain so even if I spend more time on them -- we'll see--, I at least want to point out that the biblical time spans are quite sufficient to produce all the diversity we see on the basis of the simplest Mendelian genetics, which requires no mutations. I think I posted something to that effect here at one time, but if not I have posted on it at my blog::
Parker describes how all the varieties of humans and animals are easily accounted for by simple Mendelian genetics combining a given built-in array of genes for various traits. The example he gave was of two parents with "medium" or "average" skin color, expressed as AaBb, with the capital letters representing the darkest and the lower case the lightest, saying that EVERY shade of skin that we see on earth can be produced from those two parents, from the darkest African (AABB)to the lightest European (aabb). When you think of every other trait as genetically expressed by the same formula, it becomes clear that an enormous variety of combinations would produce an enormous variety of types or varieties or races -- of people and animals of all kinds -- which would become characteristic of groups as they migrated and became geographically isolated from one another.
I go on to discuss there, and I know I have also argued it here, that the bottleneck of the Flood is misconstrued in terms of what happens NOW when there is a bottleneck. But what we see now is the result of a great deal of genetic reduction in all genomes since the Flood so that with a bottleneck we often get extreme homozygosity such as is seen in the cheetah and the elephant seal, both products of severe bottleneck or founder effect. But 4300 years ago there should have been a lot more heterozygosity for all traits remaining in all genomes than we see now, so that although a bottleneck would severely reduce that heterozygosity and produce much more homozygosity it would not be anywhere near the extremes such a bottleneck can produce today, leaving a great deal of genetic diversity to play itself out.
So, when it is argued that you don't SEE the signs of a bottleneck that would have occurred at the time of the Flood all you are saying is you don't see the signs that we see occurring NOW, but a bottleneck then would not have produced those same signs. There would have been a lot more genetic diversity left.
Maybe I'll try to deal with the links eventually.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by bluegenes, posted 04-12-2013 1:23 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by sfs, posted 09-27-2013 9:11 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 112 by NoNukes, posted 09-27-2013 10:04 PM Faith has replied
 Message 113 by bluegenes, posted 09-28-2013 2:00 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 114 of 161 (707568)
09-28-2013 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by NoNukes
09-27-2013 10:04 PM


Re: Mendelian principles account for all the diversity we see
I did read the papers, sorry that wasn't clear, I simply find them incomprehensible, and at this point no light has arrived to make them any easier to follow, but I haven't yet got back to them anyway.
I suppose their mystifying effect on me has something to do at least with their assumption of "mutations" as a source of normal variation while of course most creationists regard them as only deleterious accidents. It might help if such interpretive terminology could be translated into simple phenomenological descriptive terms, such as "changes in the sequence of the DNA" instead of "mutations" and if clear reminders were given of where such changes have been actually observed as opposed to where they are extrapolated mathematically etc. Something like that anyway.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by NoNukes, posted 09-27-2013 10:04 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by NoNukes, posted 09-28-2013 5:39 PM Faith has replied
 Message 122 by mindspawn, posted 10-09-2013 3:10 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 115 of 161 (707573)
09-28-2013 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by bluegenes
09-28-2013 2:00 AM


Re: Mendelian principles account for all the diversity we see
Thanks for the attempt. Can't make sense of it right now. Question comes to mind "Too many differences" from what? Also creationists aren't very good at understanding each other so I may not be of any help to mindspawn nor he to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by bluegenes, posted 09-28-2013 2:00 AM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by bluegenes, posted 09-30-2013 4:40 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 117 of 161 (707587)
09-28-2013 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by NoNukes
09-28-2013 5:39 PM


Re: Mendelian principles account for all the diversity we see
Deleted. I don't have the time or interest right now to get into the Y chromosome issues.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by NoNukes, posted 09-28-2013 5:39 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024