Studying the supernatural

For instance, I know I own a cat. This isn't because science has studied the cat and confirmed its existence. And the argument goes that I know I own a cat because I experience the cat personally. Even if I lived alone and had no visitors I could still say I know I own a cat.So surely then, if I can know I have a cat - with no evidence but my own personal experiences of the cat, we can know a god with no evidence but our own personal experiences of the god.

Science deals with objective truths. If something is inmaterial how can it be examined? If something is not composed of matter how can it be studied?

Dr. Randi even has a standing one million dollar offer for anyone who can produce such evidence.

Partly correct: science explains how natural systems operate, thus science shows how lightening and thunder occur, but science does not explain whether or not Thor (etc)(1) used those processes to cause thunder and lightening. Whether "Thor" exists and uses these processes to cause thunder and lightening is "a-natural" and/but unnecessary to the scientific explanation of how thunder and lightening occur.The (an)other side of this issue - particularly as it impacts this thread - is the "believer" claim that "Thor" causes thunder and lightening, thunder and lightening exist, therefore this is evidence for the existence of "Thor" (the affirming the consequent logical fallacy of course). This can be regarded as "inductive logic(2)", a conjecture, a guess or an hypothesis, but it is (currently) not a testable concept as I see it.

Oddly, you seem intent on alienating potential allies.

Nothing: you can have your opinion\belief\guess based on the things you know (tentatively), the things you think you know (but are not validated) and your personal world view/s.Just as what you have conceded cannot delay me from being open minded but skeptical.

It seemed to me that Straggler was disagreeing as strenuously with Nwr as he would with anyone from the opposite side of the divide.

It seemed more like a minor difference about how to group and label things.The real issue is that any thread in which both Straggler and RAZD participate eventually ends up discussing the same thing. They're like a pair of carnivores who, game being scarce, take to fighting between themselves over scraps of little importance and then draw in the rest of the pack.

I was presenting my opponents position in the strongest terms I could.

Is perfectly fine: it is a belief. There is no need to substantiate a belief (or an opinion or a guess about the future) -- you aren't claiming that it is true.

Natural science cannot prove supernatural phenomena, but that doesnt mean that supernatural things dont exist. For example, some people have experienced post-death or life after death. People have reported having experiences, minutes and hours after the heart has stopped beating, no brain waves and have flatlined. They have reported seeing the surgery that was being performed on them, including the tools used and what the doctors looked like. One girl even reported what her parents were doing who werent even in the surgery room but were at home.

Even assuming you have a valid point, it can only suffocate beneath so much verbiage. If you have to write that much to get your point across you either don't have a point or are splitting minute hairs.

Well, I sure as hel dont. I believe God. The God of the Bible is the one who created that process and put it in motion. That is something that you nor I can prove or disprove. Like I said, I think it's more plausable to think some intelligence was behind such an awesome thing.

What is it that you need God to do? Granted He created everything we see, what is it exactly, that would convince you?

If im claiming that lightning was created of God (which I am) and then we were to study lightning (which has been done) then I suppose that science has already studied the SN.

Instead of writing notes in the sky with the Stars (big dipper?) how about He uses me to tell you about the Gospel and saving power of Jesus? That is pretty simple and to the point, isn't it?

How do you know that? You havn't even begun the journey INTO the supernatural yet. You are just looking for signs first. Im your sign right now. You can study me.