Summations Only

...while I was being swamped with re-branding work - and there's a whole fracking thread with my name on it I can't promise a proper reply tonight as I've been up for 38 hours now, and in my current state, Buzz and ICANT are making a lot of sense I think sleep is needed...

Why would one be concerned with "breaking" thermodynamic laws without first questioning whether these laws are applicable? The 2LoT has no applicability to a single reversible quantum interaction. Are you sure it is applicable to the BBT?

I'm sorry Buz, but I'm struggling to understand some of your concepts here. Can you please provide definitions for:- reversible applicability
- the working metaphysical designer/manager of...
(and how would this contrast with a "non-working" version of the same?)
the system
- a quantum Truth Observable zero orthogonal physical counterpart to logicWith regard to 2LoT, that can be most aptly stated as dS>0 - the change in entropy is always positive. Investigating this in the context of Big Bang comsology shows that this is indeed satisfied by the BBT.

But none of these are true in the BBT. None who knew what they were talking about! The singularity is actually the lowest entropy point, and hence the most ordered point, in the Universe.

quote:

---

4. The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve toward a state of inert uniformity.

---

...unfortunately written by someone without the requisite knowledge. Uniformity can be used to describe lowest entropy as well as highest entropy, and hence is a useless (and incorrect) term in this context.

Buz, I'm one of those "magicians". I'm one of those that has taught the students, the undergrads, the grads all of this mysticism. I don't "believe" it because I have been taught it. I "believe" it because I understand it - not the analogies and pictures but the real theoretical underpinnings and the observational evidence - and can see it to be correct.So why do I do it, Buz? Why, as a born-again evangelical Christian, did I lecture and teach this stuff? Why did I spend so much of my own life researching this stuff? If it is simply all an illusion, an exercise in bamboozling the audience? Why Buz? Why?And because I can never resist teaching a little more - do you know where the most ordered, least chaotic place in the Universe is? It is at the Big Bang. The complexity you see around you did not come from chaos. It came from order...

Well, I'd like to say that I'm honoured that an EvC thread is named after me, but unfortunately, looking at the content, I'd rather have been left out of it!Buzsaw's Infinite ID Universe is a complete mash-up of badly-understood science and half-baked theology. There's not much more than can be said, other than that the interference by the intelligent designer is blatently at odds with the laws of thermodyanmics.The so-called "Cavediver's Temporal Non-ID Universe" is simply the standard Big Bang cosmology. Buz has two main objections, both of which are based on wholly erroneous ideas about the Big Bang cosmology:1) The Big Bang breaks the 1st Law of Thermodynamics.Of course it does not. To break the 1LoT, you need a time T1 at which you can categorically state that the total energy is E1, and a time T2 at which the total energy is E2, where E1=/=E2. Glossing over the usual problems of defining a coherent defintion of energy in General Relativity, no such times can be found.2) The observed order in the Universe cannot possibly come from the chaos of the Big Bang, given the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.And of course it can - simply because the Big Bang, far from being chaotic, is actually the most ordered (i.e. lowest entropy) point in the Universe. Entropy has then increased ever since. Small scale decreases in entropy are always countered by larger scale increases in entropy, such that overall entropy always increases.So we can see that the Big Bang in no way violates the laws of thermodynamics, unlike Buz's designer.I hereby declare victory in a thread in which I have barely participated. Hurrah Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.