Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,909 Year: 4,166/9,624 Month: 1,037/974 Week: 364/286 Day: 7/13 Hour: 0/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The New Cosmology of Mr. Mayer
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 90 (614686)
05-06-2011 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Oli
05-05-2011 6:41 PM


Oli writes:
In the quote it clearly states that the difference is due to a relativistic phenomenon affecting clock 2 relative to clock 1.
I think the quote is trying to imply a general relativistic (rather than special relativistic) phenomenon, which could be independent of relative velocities.
Oli
I agree, but PaulK is still correct. Since the quote doesn't give any hint that mere separation between observers can generate time dilation effects, the quote was poorly chosen by the OP.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Oli, posted 05-05-2011 6:41 PM Oli has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-07-2011 12:01 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 90 (614830)
05-07-2011 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-07-2011 11:09 AM


Removed as redundant
Edited by NoNukes, : Void

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-07-2011 11:09 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-07-2011 1:11 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 90 (614889)
05-08-2011 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-08-2011 8:56 AM


Alfred Maddenstein writes:
That is a rather strange claim on your part as the two metrics even to my untrained and unenlightened view appear to be as different as chalk and cheese.
If you notice, in Mayer's metric the radius of the observable cosmos is constant value. It may not change a single Planck length for the whole eternity. It describes a special and distinct from FLWR relationship between theta of cosmological latitude and z of redshft. The former is not even hinted at in FLWR. The very notion is absent there so the above quote cannot possibly be its description in any way, shape or form.
The question here is whether the quoted material reflects the distinctions between FLWR and Mayer's theory. I have my own doubts about that, and you've already made this type of error at least once.
As per present theory, we expect red shift of distant objects due to expansion of space irrespective of the proper relative motion between us and the distant objects in space. That seems consistent with what is said in the quoted paragraph.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-08-2011 8:56 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-08-2011 3:29 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 90 (614904)
05-08-2011 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-08-2011 3:29 PM


Alfred Maddenstein writes:
I presumed though that I'd made it clear enough that in Mayer's theory no peculiar motion of space proper was assumed at all so the causes for the same light frequencies constituting red-shift and interpreted by the canonical hypothesis to indicate the galaxies' recession as a function of the space motion per unit of the passing universal time, in the new theory were assumed to be distinctly different just as well.
I understand that. I'm trying to get you to quote Mayer saying so. Perhaps I should give up?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-08-2011 3:29 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 90 (614963)
05-09-2011 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-09-2011 11:59 AM


Alfred Maddenstein writes:
The Big Bang hypothesis simply cannot possibly match any observational data at all.
This is of course simple hyperbole if it is not completely false. For example, regardless of whether the current theory is the only explanation for the cosmic background radiation, it is certainly consistent that observation. Mayer merely proposes alternate explanations in Chapter 15.
Further, I'm sure you aren't denying that GR has confirming experimental results. Or quantum mechanics?
Right now I am also testing his prediction of the level of the vituperative denial the theory is bound to be met with. Those predictions match exactly my latest observations and all the data I collected over the past two months.
You may be overestimating your ability to present and defend Mayer's work.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-09-2011 11:59 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-09-2011 2:26 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 90 (615007)
05-09-2011 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-09-2011 2:26 PM


Alfred Maddenstein writes:
What I said may be shown to be hyperbole only after you have given a sensible answer to my question you omitted when quoting my post.
Your question was irrelevant. It does not matter if the BBT relies on green fairies. Your claim that the Big Bang "hypothesis simply cannot possibly match any observational data" is demonstrably false. Based on my reading of Chapter 15, not even Mayer is out on that limb with you.
As to your question:
Alfred writes:
demonstrate to me logically how is it possible to gain any concrete physical volume from the pure unadulterated nothing the universe is bounded by necessarily
The above strawman is not part of theory anyone is proposing The universe is not bounded by "nothing" and expansion does not mean gaining volume from some bounding "nothing". For that legitimate reason I did ignore the question in my response.
If you have a logical refutation of the above, it is always welcome. Insults and insinuations are not.
What insults?
Let me make my insinuations explicit. The majority of the discussion in this thread is directed at getting you to express Mayer's ideas so we can discuss them. In at least two cases you've admitted missing the mark, and I believe that in this post we are discussing yet a third such failure on your part.
Perhaps you should withhold judgment on the reaction you are getting until you've carried your burden to produce evidence and argument.
Or don't. Perhaps the paranoids are after you.
The universe is not expanding and may never possibly do so. QED
And the evidence for your assertion is? Apparently, none so far. Why do I need to refute your statement until you establish it? None of us can get you to do your homework. You seem to feel that the burden of persuasion is somewhere other than with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-09-2011 2:26 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-09-2011 6:50 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 90 (615044)
05-09-2011 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-09-2011 6:50 PM


When does the discussion start?
Alfred Maddenstein writes:
"Given the new perspective provided by the ideas presented herein, observations imply that the universe does not have an age; 'old' does not even begin to describe it. The Universe is apparently a rational, observable and understandable physical manifestation of eternity, which is a newly emergent scientific fact that has profound implications.
So now we have Mayer's assertions rather than your own. At least that is an improvement. But these are still not leading to any discussion that allows us to accept or reject Mayer's conclusions.
As far as can gather you are insinuating that Mayer is somehow a cryptic supporter of the Big Bang hypothesis and I am failing to reflect his truly moderate views
Well, no. I'm trying to draw you out into a discussion. There is no question that Mayer's hypothesis is different from the standard theory. The question is whether there is reason to believe Mayer is not a crank.
But the first step is to get you to discuss Mayer's position, and the arguments for that position. We're over 50 posts in, and as best I can tell, you aren't planning to present anything other than assertions.
Otherwise, NoNukes, my assertions may become demonstrably false like you allege they are only after yourself have conclusively demonstrated the possibility of nothing existing in any physical shape. Pending that, they are demonstrably self-evident. Pending that, they are demonstrably self-evident.
Nobody here owes you any refutation. You haven't even presented any evidence for Mayer's conclusions. Further, you've presented distorted descriptions of current theory.
If you are simply satisfied with your own belief, then you needn't have bothered starting a discussion thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-09-2011 6:50 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-09-2011 8:42 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 90 (615062)
05-09-2011 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-09-2011 8:42 PM


Re: When does the discussion start?
Alfred writes:
You made an assertion that my and Mayer's assertions don't provide any points for discussion. I find that assertion to be a rather curious evidence of your lack of curiosity.
Do you think trading assertions is going to be fruitful? You say that the universe is not expanding, but cosmologists disagree. Is that the end of the discussion? Do you really believe you've offered any reason to accept your assertions?
Alfred writes:
Then you assert that my presentation of the standard Big Bang hypothesis is distorted. I would appreciate you to show where it is distorted and correct my distortions.
I have already done that. So have others. I haven't noticed that pointing distortions out to you has had any effect on your rhetoric.
Alfred writes:
Next you say that I am satisfied with my beliefs. Well, yes. What is wrong with that?
Are you going to offer any defense of Mayer's work? If not, please say so now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-09-2011 8:42 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-09-2011 10:14 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 90 (615069)
05-09-2011 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-09-2011 10:14 PM


Re: When does the discussion start?
Alfred Maddenstein writes:
Your claim that cosmologists disagree with me that there is no expansion is a poor inductive reasoning.
That was my point. Trading assertions is not a worthwhile way to discuss things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-09-2011 10:14 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-10-2011 8:32 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 90 (615138)
05-10-2011 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-10-2011 2:10 PM


Alfred Maddenstein writes:
the only motion remaining is the peculiar motion of the galaxies proper nicely disposing of the tail-chase for the non-existent dark energy and matter
How is the need for dark matter eliminated? Isn't dark matter used to explain rotational speeds within galaxies? I don't see how that use is eliminated by time dilation effects.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-10-2011 2:10 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 90 (615269)
05-11-2011 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Alfred Maddenstein
05-11-2011 3:38 PM


Evidence please.
Alfred Maddenstein writes:
Otherwise, the man is making certain predictions explaining phenomena you have been unable and even never attempted to explain all the while making sense where you do not.
When are you going to get around to presenting this evidence.
Alfred M writes:
I mean tested thoroughly which is only fair play. For instance, the man claims that dark matter is fairie dust translated as fabricated ad hoc inventions repeatedly invoked in efforts to defend untenable scientific theories.
So how does Mayer explain how the orbital velocity in galaxies varies with radius from the center of galaxies without invoking dark matter?
Alfred writes:
How many years you have been testing the very existence of that kind of colour to the matter?
What in the world are you asking?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 05-11-2011 3:38 PM Alfred Maddenstein has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024