Since it IS Christmas time......

Saturnia could have been assimilated into Roman culture from the Etruscans which could have been assimilated in to their culture from the Greeks which could have been assimilated in to their culture from the Babylonians.In fact, that's actually a likely scenario. Aside from which all Christian holidays are bastardized versions of pagan holidays, Easter probably being the most explicit with its Easter (Ishtar) eggs being symbolic of fertility.Some could even say that Christmas has been re-hijacked from the Christians by pagan influences such as Santa Claus which has Hellenic, Norse and Germanic influences with the occasional smatterings of early Christian beliefs.It doesn't really matter to me either way. I don't see why you find it so objectionable. As Modulous postulates, it doesn't really matter what the significance is as long as it has meaning to the individual. He chooses that day as a celebration for his friends and family, and apparently not a day he reserves to smear religions.That might not be such a bad idea for yourself, Mr. Grinch.

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

The Gnostic views allege that Jesus essentially martyred himself by intentionally being hostile to the Jewish leaders so that they would kill him. As the Gospel of Judas narrative explains, Judas was not a betrayer but a facilitator in helping Jesus achieve his aims. This was a secret pact between Judas and Jesus.I obviously cannot know which version of the story is true, but that is another theory.

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

Here is how I view it. There are a lot of good things that could be said about the gospels that is hard to find fault with. Others, not so much. I don't particularly believe that Jesus was a unique figure, although he is regularly credited with radical teachings.For instance, the law of reciprocity which he alleged to have taught is a concept far older than Jesus. Hillel, for instance, who was an Elder of Jesus, taught it.I see wisdom in much of it though, and while it is easy to look at some of the supposed followers of Jesus in disgust, I don't judge Jesus on the basis of his followers. But why so fervent about a non-belief? Granted, I know for some people who previously believed wholeheartedly felt lied to and let down that some of their deepest convictions were based on lies. That does take a psychological toll, however, try and put things in perspective. Every one is trying to navigate through life and all of us search for answers. Jesus was likely no different.

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

I don't think many Christians make it all about themselves so much as that is the day they observe Christ's birth? It's merely a tradition handed down generation to generation.As has been agreed by everyone on the thread, it is a mishmash of religions and beliefs. I don't know of a single Christian scholar who argues that Easter is the exact day of Jesus' ascension or that Christmas is the exact day of his birth. And as Buz stated, this conflation historically points to Constantine being the primary instigator for Christianizing pagan holidays.If Christians in large numbers were saying that non-Christians could not participate in the festivities or that we have believe in their beliefs if we did participate, I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. But since they aren't, I don't mind nativity scenes or celebrations about Jesus' birth.

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

The bible doesn't mention the date of his death either, so if we were to extrapolate your sentence then does it make his death and resurrection unimportant?

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

I suppose you're right. I stand corrected. Seems we can actually narrow it down to the 15th of Nisan and even up to the hour.

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams

So you are saying there is a disparity between Luke and Matthew's gospel? I'm not seeing it. What exactly am I looking for?

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"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." --John Adams