Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,913 Year: 4,170/9,624 Month: 1,041/974 Week: 0/368 Day: 0/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   MMORGs and role playing discussion.
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 5 of 198 (525350)
09-23-2009 4:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
09-22-2009 6:34 PM


I, too, am a gamer. My group is also running D&D 4e. We've just finished the 7 Pillared Hall. Our DM has reworked the Red Hand of Doom for 4e and we'll see how well he did.
My character is a half-human, half-werewolf (no shifting powers, just tall and hirsute) Cleric (though he's about to take a cross-class feat of Druid so he can do the shapeshifting thing). My take on the new system is that it seems specifically designed to be adapted into a videogame. That is, older versions of D&D were much more complex with the number of options that you could have. Spellcasters had literally dozens of different spells to cast, for example. Melee fighters would have a much more simplified time having to choose which weapon to use and then simply having at it (though strategic placement is important).
In 4e, everybody has the same set of tools: a fixed number of at-will, encounter, and daily powers and the ability to use only a single magic item's power or two in any given encounter, and then only once. This would make it very easy to program into a game: A character can take only one of a dozen actions at most, all of which have been hard-coded.
One possible "benefit" from this is that since all character classes function identically on a large scale, you don't have to worry about certain character classes being unbalanced. Spellcasters are very powerful at high levels, but they're made of balsa wood and tissue paper early on. One good hit with a sword and the mage is literally dead and they don't really have any offensive capabilities since they can only shoot that magic missile once per day. But contrast this to the psionicist (PHB3, out soon). I don't know anybody who managed to play a game with psionics and enjoy it. Given the new system, the powers of the psionicist will be very much like the others though the type of damage will be different (psychic compared to the cleric's radiant, for example) with different side effects.
We've also played Traveller, GURPS, Cthulhu, RuneQuest, and even variations such as a Traveller game with Castle Falkenstein rules.
I think the most interesting game we've had was a one-off, lightning speed Traveller game. A couple of our players couldn't make a session so the remaining ones came up with some Traveller characters (through classic build process...so that took some time) with the idea that we were going to have an entire plot session wrap up by the end of the night. Thus, we were encouraged to develop character backstory on the fly and declare by fiat. My character was an award-winning actor (his stats didn't really put him in any other category), and the other two were his agent, and his lawyer. He got caught up in a false charge of importing ocelots and was suddenly on the run to clear his name.
My character had earned some contacts during character generation which weren't established so when he was dragged off to the police station, I declared that his contact was a mafioso who had muscle and could stage a breakout. We then tried to find out why he would be accused of importing extinct animals to the planet. We eventually learned that the ocelots weren't cats but rather a type of missile and the one who had set me up was apparently an acting rival, angry at me for having landed the part and winning the award he thought was his. After a gala costume ball that involved seven identical yeti costumes, an NPC with an allergic reaction to cotton, and trapping the bad guy in a hollow bull (with the appropriate symbology there), all was well.
When we are missing people for a game session, we'll pull them out to try another instant game done as silly as we can make it.
I've played a mixed Vampire/Mage WoD game and I like the original rules. The new ones and the new campaign setting don't seem quite right.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Larni, posted 09-22-2009 6:34 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Larni, posted 09-23-2009 6:18 AM Rrhain has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 42 of 198 (525650)
09-24-2009 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Larni
09-23-2009 6:18 AM


Larni responds to me:
quote:
I really see your point about D&D 4th ed being perfect for video game conversion but I would point out that all the iterations of D&D fit into that category.
Indeed, there have been video games made of previous editions of D&D, but they reduced the scope of a live gaming session in order to run it on a computer. The creative ways you can chain together powers is more extensive in real life than you can get in a programmed game. F'rinstance, create water combined with a fireball to generate fog. And, of course, the ability to use illusions any way you can think of. Players will always come up with possibilities that a computer programmer hasn't considered yet. With 4e, that restriction of powers has been pushed down onto the paper/pencil version.
It's still an interesting game. It's just a very different approach.
quote:
I really like your Traveller story and will shamelessly plagiarise the first opportunity I get.
It's a lot of fun. It encourages bold, direct action but not dice encounters since the goal is to get to the end in one session. And the sillier you can make it, the better. With no time to develop backstories or detailed equipment lists, you wind up with a lot of Princess Bride scenarios: "If I had a wheelbarrow, that would be something." "Where did we put that wheelbarrow the albino had?" "Over the albino." "Great, now if only I had a Holocaust Cloak." (*flourish*) "Where did you get that?" "Miracle Max. It fit so well, he said I could keep it." Obviously, you don't get to go too far, but a good group of players will know where the line is. You do need a DM who can come up with a strong plot structure that will get filled in as you go along and is able to wing it well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Larni, posted 09-23-2009 6:18 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Larni, posted 09-24-2009 5:59 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 131 of 198 (526403)
09-27-2009 6:17 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Rahvin
09-26-2009 11:36 PM


Rahvin writes:
quote:
The best roleplay session I ever had with my friends was when we didn't have any dice, and I just used the story and the character's attributes as a gauge to carry the story forward.
This is one of the characteristics of the Castle Falkenstein method: You don't have to play with any dice ever. You have a set of traits (engineering, gun, gambling, diplomacy, etc.) of which you are "Great" at one, "Good" at four, and "Poor" at one. Everything else you are "Average" at.
Any time you have a challenge, you compare your ranking against it to see if you succeed. A "Great" gunner should always outperform a merely "Good" one. If you want to play superhero type stuff, there are "Exceptional" and "Extraordinary" levels above "Great."
Now, CF does include a system of randomness in the use of cards, but you don't have to use them at all if you don't want to. And while CF does allow you to try and train things up (though it requires the loss of something else...to get an "Exceptional," something else must be "Poor"), you can play without anybody's abilities ever changing.
My group played a Darrian Traveller campaign using this system, no cards. We had no up-training until we discovered an Ancient site and that always throws wrenches into the works.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Rahvin, posted 09-26-2009 11:36 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 132 of 198 (526406)
09-27-2009 6:48 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Larni
09-26-2009 12:46 PM


Larni asks:
quote:
So, when you role play do you tend to stick to a character type of do you play differing classes or archetypes?
I tend to gravitate more toward spell-casters. Classic D&D, I tended toward illusionists over straight M-Us.
Of late, I've branched out. My RuneQuest character was Humakti (though a formidable fighter, he did become a powerful RunePriest as well as a RuneLord) who had to do things differently: When he got his spirit item, he didn't choose a sword. Instead, he bound it to a sleeve of iron chainmail (named "Soulwork").
When D&D 3 came out, I played a Bard, Coyote. At creation, I specifically chose "Blindfight" as a Feat. When we finally got to the end of the campaign (over a year later), we were faced with a medusa and that Feat finally came in handy. It was chosen so long ago that our DM had forgotten Coyote had it and got frustrated that his big bad wasn't as big or bad as he wanted it to be.
For D&D 3.5, I played a Monk. She was my first Lawful Good character.
For Traveller, I have played a primitive who was a priest of the crocodile god who was snatched by intergalactic pirates and later escaped. There were another couple of campaigns where I played an engineer/computer scientist and a medic/psychic (he would teleport into disabled ships, stabilize the injured, and teleport them out.) And, as mentioned, our one-off games is my actor.
Our Cthulhu game had me playing a jock (crew). He only lost 1 sanity point during the campaign, though it was a somewhat brief stint.
Our GURPS Infinite Worlds campaign had me playing essentially a secret agent/superspy (DEX, guns, tactics, savoir faire, sex appeal, driving). He managed to get a Tech 11 blaster rifle that he never went anywhere without if he could possibly help it.
The current D&D 4e campaign has me as a Cleric.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Larni, posted 09-26-2009 12:46 PM Larni has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 133 of 198 (526407)
09-27-2009 7:08 AM


A couple of gaming cartoons, in case y'all haven't heard of them already:
First, Order of the Stick. The first couple hundred strips were more about poking fun at gaming in and of itself but as it went on, it developed an actual plot and storyline and now it's more about the campaign than the meta-level commentary (though that still comes up).
(http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/oots0007.gif)
Second, Knights of the Dinner Table. This is generally an actual comic book (though it started with strips in Dragon), but they have web strips, too. This is a strip about gamers and the Munchkin behaviour that tends to crop up.
Edited by Rrhain, : Don't know why the image isn't showing here. It's strip #7.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Larni, posted 09-27-2009 7:29 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024