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Author Topic:   Can those outside of science credibly speak about science?
JavaMan
Member (Idle past 2349 days)
Posts: 475
From: York, England
Joined: 08-05-2005


Message 51 of 198 (291682)
03-03-2006 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Silent H
03-01-2006 6:03 PM


Judge the argument not the man
I'm with Crashfrog on this. If you can't defend an argument without flashing your qualifications around, you've lost.
Most of the scientists I know have about as much insight into Science as the average car mechanic has into Transport Policy.

The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Silent H, posted 03-01-2006 6:03 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Silent H, posted 03-03-2006 5:57 AM JavaMan has replied

JavaMan
Member (Idle past 2349 days)
Posts: 475
From: York, England
Joined: 08-05-2005


Message 67 of 198 (291724)
03-03-2006 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Silent H
03-03-2006 5:57 AM


Re: Judge the argument not the man
Its hard for me to believe that "most" scientists have no knowledge of the discipline they are in.
To be honest I don't know any Scientists, I only know Chemists, Biologists and Geologists. Actually it's not even as general as that. I only know experts in Flavonoid synthesis, mollusc behaviour and undersea oil extraction.
The further you go in academic training, the more specialised you become. What you become expert in is a particular very specialized field, not the whole of Science. Your opinion on questions about that field is to be valued, but you can't claim a special knowledge about the rest of Science.
I'd also argue that a science education by itself tends to make an individual less skilled in reasoning than an education in the humanities or social sciences. Science training is generally focused on learning facts and principles, and on showing that you've learnt those facts and principles, rather than on putting together a reasonable argument for a case.
It's only self-education outside of the academic training that can make a scientist informed and skilled enough to put together a decent argument. And if a scientist can educate himself in these skills, then so can anyone else.

The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Silent H, posted 03-03-2006 5:57 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by nator, posted 03-03-2006 8:09 AM JavaMan has replied
 Message 73 by Silent H, posted 03-03-2006 9:50 AM JavaMan has not replied

JavaMan
Member (Idle past 2349 days)
Posts: 475
From: York, England
Joined: 08-05-2005


Message 69 of 198 (291732)
03-03-2006 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by nator
03-03-2006 8:09 AM


Re: Judge the argument not the man
You had damn well better be able to argue your case, in lab meetings and at conferences and in grant applications and in the papers you write if you want to be successful.
Those aren't part of the academic training - you need to do those things in any career.
And how much reasoned argument you need to put into an academic paper depends on the discipline. If I'm writing a paper on a novel synthesis of a compound, I have to follow a very strict formula - the only bit of discussion I'm allowed to make is in relating my current work to the work of others, and that too tends to follow a formula. There really isn't any need for me to make any case other than the obvious one, that my synthesis is novel.

The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by nator, posted 03-03-2006 8:09 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by nator, posted 03-03-2006 9:10 AM JavaMan has not replied

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