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Author Topic:   Can those outside of science credibly speak about science?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 15 of 198 (291383)
03-02-2006 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Silent H
03-01-2006 6:03 PM


Does someone have to go to school to have an understanding of science?
How about 24 years in the field practically applying things in science?
Plus no one here is an expert on the complete field of science.
I consider myself an expert in many fields, but if someone here wants to discuss with me about it, I will share what I know with them, even if they are ignorant. Others have done the same for me, and that is what I like about this site.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Silent H, posted 03-01-2006 6:03 PM Silent H has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by nator, posted 03-02-2006 7:59 AM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 42 of 198 (291583)
03-02-2006 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by nator
03-02-2006 7:59 AM


What science do you do?
Memory shot?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by nator, posted 03-02-2006 7:59 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by nator, posted 03-02-2006 7:51 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 59 of 198 (291701)
03-03-2006 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by nator
03-02-2006 7:51 PM


But you don't develop and test theory for a living, and that's what most scientists do.
Well I already proved in another thread that I do in fact develop and test theory for a living, and in my hobbies.
Also what does being a scientist have to do with the ability to understand and talk about science?
The application of those theories is a continuing process that is carried out by people like me, who further refine and improve it. From a practical stand point we can sometimes even come up with a better theory and apply it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by nator, posted 03-02-2006 7:51 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by nator, posted 03-03-2006 7:07 AM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 61 of 198 (291707)
03-03-2006 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Silent H
03-03-2006 6:20 AM


Re: Not being a snob, just raising a question
The creos don't have that ability to make such statements to be sure, but I find it is a problem that crosses both lines, and I have concern over the popularization of appeals to self authority based in allegiance rather than practice. ID is a good example of a shift by creos to using that same formula.
NTS, no-true-scientist

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Silent H, posted 03-03-2006 6:20 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Silent H, posted 03-03-2006 7:18 AM riVeRraT has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 88 of 198 (291928)
03-03-2006 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by nator
03-03-2006 7:07 AM


quote:
There is no sharp distinction between science and engineering although engineers typically have practical goals in mind while scientists investigate fundamental phenomena.
Scientist - Wikipedia
Yes, I engineer stuff in my work, and I use the scientific method in my hobbies, which include flying planes, designing and building electric motors, and astronomy.
( to name a few)
A Scientist, which I am not, is not the only person qualified to talk about "science".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by nator, posted 03-03-2006 7:07 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by ReverendDG, posted 03-03-2006 9:46 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 92 by nator, posted 03-04-2006 6:46 AM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 96 of 198 (292054)
03-04-2006 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by nator
03-04-2006 6:46 AM


OK, please give a detailed example of the science you do.
I could give hundreds of examples. What gets me is that you think it is not possible. I must also say that you do not have to come up with theory to be doing science.
I will give 2 examples.
1. Amateur astronomy. I have actively participated in measuring variable stars. It is science.
2. I build electric motors for racing, and flying. I experiment with different ideas (theories). By changing the size, shape, amount of the wire used to make the motors, you can make motors more or less efficient, and different levels of power. I use sophisticated equipment to measure my results.
Here is a link to some of that equipment.
http://www.medusaproducts.com/...wer-Analyzers/pa-60100R.htm
Here are some of my results:
"Volts" "Amps" "AUX" "Temp1" "Temp2" "Watts" "AmpHrs" "WattHrs" "RPM" "Thrust" "Throttle"
12.225 -0.01 6332 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 -0.01 6332 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 0 6332 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 0 6332 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 0 6332 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 -0.01 6332 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 0 6332 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 -0.01 6332 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 -0.01 6332 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 0 6331 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 -0.01 6331 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 0 6331 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 0 6331 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 0
12.225 0 6331 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 2
12.225 -0.01 6331 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 4
12.225 -0.01 6331 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 6
12.225 0 6332 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 8
12.225 -0.01 6331 0 0 0 0 0 0.014 0 10
12.225 0 6331 0 0 0 0 850 0.014 0 12
12.195 0.51 6331 0 0 0 6 850 0 0 14
12.195 0.42 6331 0 0 0 5 850 0 0 16
12.2 0.28 6331 0 0 0 3 375 0 0 19
12.195 0.33 6330 0 0 0 4 375 0 0 21
12.195 0.41 6330 0 0 0 4 125 0 0 23
12.19 0.44 6331 0 0 0 5 125 0 0 25
12.185 0.55 6330 0 0 0 6 175 0 0 27
12.175 0.67 6331 0 0 0 8 175 0 0 29
12.17 0.8 6331 0 0 0 9 475 0 0 31
12.165 1.01 6331 0 0 0 12 475 0 0 33
12.145 1.06 6331 0 0 0 12 925 0 0 35
12.14 1.19 6332 0 0 0 14 925 0 0 37
12.115 1.4 6332 0 0 0 16 1625 0 0 40
12.105 1.55 6332 0 0 0 18 1625 0 0 42
12.085 1.79 6332 0 0 0 21 2725 0 0 44
12.065 2.1 6333 0 0 0 25 2725 0 0 46
12.05 2.18 6333 0 0 0 26 3400 0.001 0 48
12.04 2.28 6333 0 0 0 27 3400 0.001 0 50
12.03 2.23 6333 0 0 0 26 2725 0.001 0 52
12.035 2.66 6334 0 0 0 32 2725 0.001 0 54
12.005 2.48 6334 0 0 0 29 3125 0.001 0 56
11.995 2.88 6334 0 0 0 34 3125 0.001 0 58
11.98 2.97 6334 0 0 0 35 3050 0.002 0 61
11.97 3.11 6335 0 0 0 37 3050 0.002 0 63
11.95 3.37 6335 0 0 0 40 3050 0.002 0 65
11.925 3.55 6335 0 0 0 42 5050 0.002 0 67
11.905 3.88 6335 0 0 0 46 5050 0.002 0 69
11.89 4.19 6336 0 0 0 49 6950 0.003 0 71
11.865 4.39 6335 0 0 0 52 6950 0.003 0 73
11.84 4.86 6335 0 0 0 57 8175 0.003 0 75
11.805 5.16 6336 0 0 0 60 8175 0.004 0 77
11.77 5.64 6336 0 0 0 66 9050 0.004 0 79
11.815 4.77 6336 0 0 0 56 9050 0.004 0 82
11.705 6.47 6336 0 0 0 75 11900 0.005 0 84
11.665 6.75 6337 0 0 0 78 11900 0.005 0 86
11.63 7.07 6336 0 0 0 82 15700 0.006 0 88
11.585 7.69 6336 0 0 0 89 15700 0.006 0 90
11.535 8.41 6335 0 0 0 97 16275 0.007 0 92
11.49 8.92 6335 0 0 0 102 16275 0.007 0 94
11.43 9.74 6336 0 0 0 111 20800 0.008 0 96
11.365 10.31 6335 0 0 0 117 20800 0.008 0.1 98
11.3 11.1 6335 0 0 0 125 1025 0.009 0.1 100
11.27 11.34 6334 0 0 0 127 1025 0.01 0.1 100
11.245 11.65 6334 0 0 0 131 0 0.011 0.1 100
11.245 11.59 6335 0 0 0 130 0 0.011 0.1 100
11.23 11.75 6334 0 0 0 131 0 0.012 0.1 100
11.195 11.95 6334 0 0 0 133 0 0.013 0.1 100
11.195 11.69 6333 0 0 0 130 50 0.014 0.1 100
11.16 11.43 6334 0 0 0 127 50 0.014 0.1 100
11.135 11.47 6333 0 0 0 127 50 0.015 0.1 100
Based on past runs and results, I can come with new wire/wind combinations to make a more powerful, or more efficient motor.
I will give a third example here, and that is my Ham radio license. I have designed and built quagi antennas and successfully communicated with other Ham operators through satellites around the world. By aiming my antenna at the satellite, and using it as a repeater.
I hope this qualifies me. I hope I passed the audition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by nator, posted 03-04-2006 6:46 AM nator has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 446 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 128 of 198 (292319)
03-05-2006 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by nator
03-04-2006 6:49 AM


Re: OK, if you think logic is so natural
Which cards should you turn over in order to test the truth of the proposition that if a card shows an even number, then its opposite face shows a primary colour?
Can a card with a secondary color show a even number?
This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 03-05-2006 08:37 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by nator, posted 03-04-2006 6:49 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 03-05-2006 11:29 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 163 by nator, posted 03-05-2006 3:27 PM riVeRraT has not replied

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