is the US sliding into Fascism? Evidence for and against

Circular reasoning. You only conclude this because you already assume that there must be some extreme leftists for us to be ignoring.That's the proposition, however, that you haven't been able to defend. Who are these leftist extremists? Why is it that you can't tell us who they are?

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The Patriot Act and proposed PA2

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Dealing with terrorist requires changes

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Gay Marriage Ban

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This is stupid and I disagree with it

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Privitizing Social Security proposal

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Did you bother to hear what the president had to say about this last night? Is the following in any way fair:
A couple both work outside the home and pay into the social security system for many years. One spouse dies before retirement. The surviving spouse must choose the greater of the two incomes, but can’t have both. The deceased spouse paid into the system for many years, yet the survivor gets none of that. It stays in the system and is in essence a huge tax.Bush want to allow part but not all of the social security payments to go to private accounts so that when a spouse dies, the surviving spouse gets at least some compensation for all the years of contributing. You don’t consider that fair?

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Restrictions on out of state abortions for teenagers passed by the house

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There should be restrictions on teenage abortions. The ACLU is supporting a 13 year old’s right to an abortion without parental consent. That’s extreme

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Bankruptsy Bill

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What is this? drival

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Tax cut for the wealthy

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Party line mantra

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General weakening of environmental laws.

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This is not legislation only an opinion

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Weakening of paid overtime law for workers

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What weakening?

Monk, I have jumped through your hoops.I have provided you with the evidence to show that the FRC is a group bent upon enforcing the conservative Christian moral agenda through legislation.Several of the most powerful people in our governemt, including frist, are very closely aligned with this organization.Why is it unreasonable to think that the most powerful people in our government are pushing hard for getting conservative Christian morality put into law, which includes appointing conservative activist judges which will be amenable to their cause?

It's not at all circular. In any group of democrats, there will be some who are futher left than others. The fact that you can't or won't name any is why you are so extreme in your position.

Representation of their religious views in the state legislature? No, they're not entitled to that; it's unconstitutional. Absolutely. Hence, the current attacks aganist the judiciary. Oh, did you think they were going to just try once and give up? Sorry, guess again. Where did you think all this sudden sentiment against "activist judges" stemmed from? They're removing the last barrier to the enactment of laws like Allen's. He just jumped the gun a bit, is all. It's an example of the sort of ceaseless religious establishment that you repeatedly assert isn't occuring. In other words, it's the single counterexample we need to disprove your position. Indeed. The movement to establish Christianity as the state religion has deep, deep roots. Great. So clean house. Your peers are beginning to wake up to what has happened to your party (and my ex-party, I might add); what's your problem? When are you going to blink the sleep out of your eyes and get busy? What I see in the conservative Christian community is a small minority who wishes to impose Christianity on all the rest of us, and a large majority that refuses to oppose or deal with the people they see as little more than misguided people who are "good at heart." Well, they're not. They're a threat to America, and you need to deal with them. It's time for you to clean your own house.

Naturally. But there are none who are further left than the majority of people they represent. This is not true of Republicans; that's been the point all along and the only thing you have to rebut that is this smokescreen. When are you going to take this argument seriously?This message has been edited by crashfrog, 04-29-2005 01:34 PM

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Dealing with terrorist requires changes

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Like trashing the Constitution and civil rights?Wow, you are a NeoCon Fascist, aren't you?.The ends justifies the means, no matter how much the police and FBI get to abuse their power, eh?

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Gay marriage Ban

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This is stupid and I disagree with it

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So, do you then agree that the gay marriage ban is coming from the conservative christian agenda to legislate morality to all americans?

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Bush want to allow part but not all of the social security payments to go to private accounts so that when a spouse dies, the surviving spouse gets at least some compensation for all the years of contributing. You don?t consider that fair?

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What happens if the stock market takes a huge dive, or the particular investments made go south? Then they get nothing.The stock market is just gambling, you know.

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There should be restrictions on teenage abortions.

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There should be restrictions on many kinds of abortions.But what about this particular one?

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The ACLU is supporting a 13 year old?s right to an abortion without parental consent. That?s extreme

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What if her father is the one who got her pregnant, and her mother isn't around or doesn't believe her?The bankruptsy bill makes it more difficult for individuals (not millionaires, though) to declare bankruptsy while rewarding predatory lenders.Tax cut for the wealthy evidenceI'm running out of time, but...http://www.epinet.org/.../webfeatures_viewpoints_OT_pay_loss

Most people do. The vast majority of the American people who voted Republican do. Nonetheless, the Republican leadership pushed ahead with it.That's the point. They're extremists because they're much, much farther to the right than the people they claim to represent. Do you get it, yet? The people running your party aren't interested in representing you. They're interested in corporate kickbacks and taking trips on lobbyists' credit cards, and whoring themselves out to the religious right with token support of social positions only a minority of Americans support to cement their political careers.Well, the problem is that the religious right is waking up to that, and they're starting to demand more and more. Hence this recent assault on our civil freedoms. Hence Terri Schaivo. Hence attacking the judiciary that defends our individual freedoms. The religious right wants theocracy, and the problem is, the leadership of the Republican party as put themselves in a situation where they have little choice but to give it to them. Is it? Did you consider the fact that, if a 13-year-old is pregnant, the father is likely to be her own father? Oh, no, you didn't. In your worldview, there's nothing wrong with the idea of forcing a 13-year-old girl to go to her rapist and ask him for permission to abort his child.Didn't even occur to you. Disgusting. Oh, you didn't hear? Congress was apparently too busy to work on the issues you voted them into office for, but the credit card companies paid them a bunch of money, so somehow they found the time to squeeze in this little gem of a bill that makes it next to impossible for an American family - unless they're rich, natch' - to file bankrupcy.Do you know what the leading cause of bankrupcy among American families is? No, it's not flatscreen TV's and lattes at Starbucks. It's unexpected medical expenses. 50% of backrupcies are for medical expenses. Among those, 50% of those are families that had health insurance.How dare an American family weedle their way out of consumer debt and medical expenses? Into the poorhouse with 'em! That's what your Republicans have been working on all this time. Guess you weren't paying attention? Yeah, I guess not.

I think you are absolutely right.The average American labors under the illusion they live in a democracy, when they really live in a fascist state ruled by wealthy industrialists who manipulate puppet politicians into, and out of, power by controlling the purse strings of their support networks. The votes of the ignorant unwashed are apparently easily manipulated with smear tactics, scare tactics, and character assasinations that are all bought and paid for by wealth and influence.Is the current regime fascist? They are trying to undo every form of social saftey net this country has (and it doesn't have many) from Social Security to Medicade etc., while their supporters are raking in
profits from the high price of oil, and the exhorbitantly bloated and over-priced health insurance industry, among other sources of revenue paid for by the common man.Is the current regime fascist? Does this sound at all familiar."Of course the common people don't want war,
but they can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders.
Tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists
for lack of patriotism and endangering the country.
It works the same in every country."- happens to be a quote from nazi ReichMarshall Hermann Goering at the Nuremburg trials, but could easily have been said by Karl Rove.This message has been edited by EZscience, 04-29-2005 02:03 PM

Please. Then what would you suggest? No changes at all? Business as usual after 9/11? Tell me what you would do? Nothing? Many conservative Christians support it yes, but a lot of other people do also. Wrong! You’ve been listening to too much rheteric. Think it through for yourself. US treasury bonds will be part of the range of investment options and it’s as safe as you can get. Either way, anything and I mean anything is better than the paltry 2% you get from social security.But if you are still concerned, you can go with the 2% US treasury bonds which is exactly the same yield and the same security as social security. The difference is this: when the spouse dies it can be passed to the surviving spouse and does not end up as a huge tax. This would help the average and lower income folk. Rich people don't need social security. Yes, Yes, this always gets thrown up as the reason to not have any restrictions at all, even though it is an isolated case. But let’s consider the much more likely scenario. I guarantee you would want to know if your 13 year old daughter were pregnant let alone is going to have an abortion. Don’t deny that you would not want to know.Besides, ever hear of social services? Is there no one to help this poor unfortunate? She should be removed from the household and taken away from the incestuous father. Why should he make any decisions about her let alone pregnancy decisions?Social services should be involved because she is a minor. What would you have? She gets the abortion without telling anyone about it then goes right back to the incestuous father.This message has been edited by Monk, Fri, 04-29-2005 02:15 PM

Is this on the air?
I've never once heard this show.
My family is a bit spread out and never once on any of the talk radio stations in any of these towns did I hear Air america.In fact, where I am, the talk radio station is STRICTLY conservative talk.The morning starts with two back to back local conservative shows until 1pm, Steve Gill and Phil Valentine, oh wait here's the daily line up, every day.Cumulus | WWTN-FM2 Liddy's a day!
The only one that isn't political is Dave Ramsey, but he is still VERY conservative and christian.I've never ever heard a non-Republican talk show on the radio, ever.

The positions of the Democrats you listed all screamed liberal to me.
At least they didn't scream conservative.All except for (would you believe it) Howard Dean.
Anti-hemp voting record, no federal gun laws, come on...But, there is a difference between liberal and "far left wing."I guess it's just a matter of perspective, but there is a big difference.Actually, I think if we are to call ourselves the land of the free, that would imply that our political stance with regard to, at least, social or personal choices would be liberal.To be liberal in this sense is to be American.
To be authoritarian (mislabelled "conservative" here) is un-American.And I never saw John McCain's record spelled out like this.
My opinion of him dwindled when he endorsed Bush, but now I really think he's the worst kind of phony. "straight-talk express" my ass.Yes, McCain the answer to crime is more prisons (what a moron). That way there's more room for all the abortion doctors. I think he was on the right track with campaign finance reform, but his law did nothing but make things worse with all the 527s and related garbage in the last election. The law made comapaigns worse not better. Nice try though.I'll keep this website in mind in future elections (that I won't be participating in).

I don't know any non-religious person that agrees with banning gay marriage. I think their logic is that it doesn't affect them, so what's the harm? That's also the way I see it. It will NEVER affect me if 1% of the population can now get legally married to their same sex partner. It doesn't affect me now that they get married without the paperwork, and I don't see how their filling out paperwork will change anything in my life.

I think I’m done with this thread but I didn’t want to leave before noting the voting records and positions of the individuals you mentioned. I went to the website that YOU provided and found the following descriptions. These descriptions can be found at the very bottom of each politician’s page and is an accumulation and aggregate based on their voting history. Since you provided the Link, I assume you agree with the following:

• Ted Kennedy...........Hard Core Liberal
• Barbara Boxer.........Hard Core Liberal
• Nancy Pelosi...........Hard Core Liberal
• Howard Dean...........Hard Core Liberal
• John Kerry...............Left Leaning Libertarian
• Hilary(sic) Clinton.....Liberal Populist

• Denny Hastert...........Libertarian Leaning Conservative
• Tom DeLay................Libertarian Leaning Conservative
• Roy Blunt...................Libertarian Leaning Conservative
• George W.Bush.........Libertarian Leaning Conservative
• John Ashcroft............Hard Core Conservative
• John McCain..............Moderate Conservative

Hmmm.. seems to me that the democrats are more extreme than the republicans.

Hi gnojekAir America is on the air but not everywhere, they have 53 stations. Here is a Link to their website. They have a station listing.