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Author Topic:   is the US sliding into Fascism? Evidence for and against
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 7 of 257 (202619)
04-26-2005 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
04-26-2005 8:32 AM


definition.
this is a simple question of definition.
fascism, according to bennito mussolini, is more correctly called "corporatism" because it is the merger of state and economic power.
so, who controls the state? who controls the largest corporation? how much overlap or influence is there?
then we'll know if we're becoming fascist.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 23 of 257 (202732)
04-26-2005 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
04-26-2005 4:08 PM


The separation of poweers is our biggest hope and one great security.
yes, and i find power grabs such as the schiavo fiasco really atrocious -- not to mention a scary. they made a spectacle, and used it as a weapon to increase their party's political influence.
one person (in the legislature) referred to the supreme court as "law making judges." they didn't make a law, nor can they. they simple overturn the ones the legislature isn't allowed to pass, in both the state and federal gov't.
so i think we call our congressmen and get them to propose a new law: you cannot be elected to state or federal office without first passing a high school level civics exam. it really annoys me when government doesn't know what the government is for.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 25 of 257 (202736)
04-26-2005 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Tal
04-26-2005 1:34 PM


Re: Nonsense?
No, I have no "political self interest" or "transparent manipulation." What I do have an issue with is that our Government starved a handicapped citizen to death.
i think it was grotesque they way it went down. not just the political crap that went on, but the way she actually died. granted, she was brain dead and therefor did not care, but BOTH groups needed o recognize that she deserved a lot more respect as even a former human being tha she got.
spawned not by this, but by another recent tragedy that's sort of made me think about my own mortality. and i'm going to rather informally start writing a living will. i'm going to include a stance that should i be determined brain dead, i not only want to actually die, but in a pro-active kind of way. in that case, i want someone to actually KILL me, not just let me die from neglect.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 28 of 257 (202741)
04-26-2005 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tal
04-26-2005 2:43 PM


The problem is these "activist" judges are either setting national policy that has not been passed by congress,
national policy is routinely set by court cases. for instance, you can't be arrested and detained now without being read a set rights named after a man who didn't know he had rights.
did congress make that a law? no. they just overturned the original decision that ignorance of american law and the fact that we have a right not to self-incriminate equates to waiving those rights when you think you have to confess.
and so, police departments are smart enough to read these rights every time, so every single person arrested doesn't admit it, and then sue because they didn't know they had the right to remain silent.
or in some cases they are telling the legislatures what laws they MUST pass!
no, actually the opposite is true. they tell congress what laws the CANNOT pass. sometimes congress or the state legislature actually passes laws that contradict this a fundamental set of rights we have in this country, called "the bill of rights." as such, when these laws are violated, the cases often get to the supreme court, who overturns the law as "unconstitutional."
now, claiming to be an "american" and not supporting "the bill of rights" and "the constitution" is like claiming to be a christian, and except for the bible.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 29 of 257 (202743)
04-26-2005 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Alexander
04-26-2005 4:57 PM


Re: Nonsense?
Honestly. If you're going to die on national tv, at least make it exciting for the rest of us. Terry Sciavo isn't really on topic here.
yeah, i agree. (to both parts)
And in case anyone was wondering, something like 70-90% of Americans disapproved of the actions taken by the Prez and Congress in this matter.
wow, it sure didn't seem that way.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 32 of 257 (202756)
04-26-2005 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Jazzns
04-26-2005 5:09 PM


Re: Fascism?
While we certainly have 1-4 we don't quite have 5 which I think is enough to say we are not quite a fascist nation.
yet. i pray that we never do.
Luckily, there is enough sense on the right to see that totalitarianism is bad.
i'm not so sure. look at the president's grab for legislative powers: he now as the power to declare war whenever he FEELS the country may be in danger. this is not a presidential power. my congressman said to me, regarding his vote, that it was "his duty" to stand behind the president, and give him that power.
i'm sure a few more examples could be found. the legislature is basically in the pocket of the republican party, under the authority (leadership?) of bush. whether you like or hate bush, this is dangerous and not what our government is supposed to be.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 33 of 257 (202758)
04-26-2005 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Alexander
04-26-2005 5:23 PM


Re: Nonsense?
Whoops. Supposed to be 70-80%.
still higher than it felt like. i suspect observer and question bias.
for instance, a lot of people i talked to felt that the government did the wrong thing, but thought terri should live. and a lot of the people who thought she should be allowed to die, thought it was done in an especially neglectful and inhumane way. so it's hard to draw a black and white figure on the incident. but either way, moving on.
Most Americans are apathetic to Bible-beating machinations most of the time, but when their policy clout is forcefully demonstrated, the silent majority is sometimes snapped out of apathy.
for about 15 minutes. then we turn back to "judging amy."

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