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Author Topic:   is the US sliding into Fascism? Evidence for and against
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 4 of 257 (202601)
04-26-2005 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by nator
04-26-2005 9:18 AM


2. Disdain for human rights
Well, the judicial system did just sit by and watched a handicapped citizen be starved to death. So I'll have to agree here (about the US).
4. Supremacy of the military
How would you compare the US military to the other countries you listed?
The rest of your post is nonsense.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by nator, posted 04-26-2005 9:18 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by mikehager, posted 04-26-2005 12:49 PM Tal has replied
 Message 8 by dsv, posted 04-26-2005 1:12 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 9 of 257 (202644)
04-26-2005 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by mikehager
04-26-2005 12:49 PM


Re: Nonsense?
That's quick and easy, isn't it? Lovely neocon kneejerk reaction. Dismiss criticism and try to make it seem foolish.
I think the onus is on the op to show evidence/examples of "Rampant sexism," "Disdain for intellectuals and the arts," or "Labor power suppressed."
It's quick and easy to tell me my response is quick and easy. I simply don't see the rest of the post as having any substance. If you think a particular point has substance, lets here why you think it does and discuss it.
The assinine neocon "concern" for Tery Shiavo sickens me. It is naked political self interest and transparent manipulation
No, I have no "political self interest" or "transparent manipulation." What I do have an issue with is that our Government starved a handicapped citizen to death.
Any reasonable person who forms their own ideas and doesn't get their opinions from neocon propoganda knew the right thing to do was follow Terry Shiavo and her next-of-kin's wishes.
No, Micheal Shiavo reversed his story about that.
What exactly does following the express wishes of an adult have to do with human rights?
Nothing, but lets save the dolphins.
Read the Geneva Convention and the terms it sets for prisoners of war and non aligned combatants. Here's the short form... we are obligated to either treat those captured as POW's or turn them over to a duly constituted legal system, either that of America's or of their country of origin. None of this has been done for the "detainees".
Oh we can do POW status.
Let's review the criteria for POW status.
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
Now, in order to qualify for POW status, you have meet the criteria listed in a through d. So, lets examine the average bad guy in Iraq and how/if they fulfill those criteria.
A. I'll have to give you the fact that they do have supervisors and commanders.
B. Fixed, distinctive, recognizable insignia? No. They blend in as best they can with the local population.
C. No, they dont' carry arms openly. They hide them, then dig them up and use them to attack when it is convenient for them. Then they throw there arms down and run when the Apaches come in.
D. I'm fairly certain they don't conduct their operations IAW any rules anywhere. They blow up Iraqi civillians, including kids, and cut the heads off pretty much anyone (they've actually heads off of "CIA" agents who were just joe shmo Iraqi).
So, they fail 3 out of 4.
Here's the short form... we are obligated to either treat those captured as POW's or turn them over to a duly constituted legal system, either that of America's or of their country of origin. None of this has been done for the "detainees".
Now, tell me where it says this. I want the long form.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by mikehager, posted 04-26-2005 12:49 PM mikehager has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by arachnophilia, posted 04-26-2005 4:52 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 12 of 257 (202662)
04-26-2005 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Alexander
04-26-2005 2:09 PM


I agree with everything you said up until the recent assault on judges. I would like to discuss this further. Can you be more specific? So far I've only seen the legislature attempt to excercise its Constitutional authority for checks/balances on the judiciary.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Alexander, posted 04-26-2005 2:09 PM Alexander has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Alexander, posted 04-26-2005 2:25 PM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 15 of 257 (202674)
04-26-2005 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Alexander
04-26-2005 2:25 PM


Congress has been exercising its authority to check the judiciary-in the form of filibuster aimed to prevent some of Bush's appointments. I have a feeling that this isnt what you mean. I don't care much about that, Gingrich and Co. held up the same proportion of Clinton's nominees in the 90's.
Did newt and the boys use filibusters to block nominees who otherwise would have passed?
The whole point of the courts is to protect the country from a rabid majority.
No, the point of the courts is to correctly intepret the laws passed by the congress.
The court is supposed to be above populist attacks.
They are supposed to be free from political pressure sure. Their job is to intepret law. That doesn't mean that they are not accountable. The problem is these "activist" judges are either setting national policy that has not been passed by congress, or in some cases they are telling the legislatures what laws they MUST pass!
This message has been edited by Tal, 04-26-2005 01:44 PM

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Alexander, posted 04-26-2005 2:25 PM Alexander has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by dsv, posted 04-26-2005 3:26 PM Tal has replied
 Message 24 by Jazzns, posted 04-26-2005 4:52 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 28 by arachnophilia, posted 04-26-2005 5:00 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 17 of 257 (202700)
04-26-2005 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by dsv
04-26-2005 3:26 PM


Here's the key to the Shiavo incident.
On March 21, three days after Schiavo's feeding tube was removed, Congress passed a bill transferring jurisdiction of the case from Florida state court to a U.S. District Court, for a federal judge to review. President Bush signed it into law the next day. But federal courts refused to overturn the state courts' decision.
The courts ignored congress and the President. They don't want to play with the other 2 branches of government?
Why does it matter? The point is they're hypocrites.
So the answer is.....no, the republicans never filibustered nominees who otherwise would have passed.
This message has been edited by Tal, 04-26-2005 02:42 PM

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by dsv, posted 04-26-2005 3:26 PM dsv has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 04-26-2005 3:45 PM Tal has replied
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 19 of 257 (202710)
04-26-2005 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
04-26-2005 3:45 PM


Yes, you are correct, they didn't ignore the othe 2 branches. They went directly against their wishes.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 04-26-2005 3:45 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 04-26-2005 4:08 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 115 of 257 (206716)
05-10-2005 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by EZscience
05-09-2005 11:14 PM


Re: Fascism: Alive and well in 21st century America
Ever get a job from a poor person?

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by EZscience, posted 05-09-2005 11:14 PM EZscience has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Silent H, posted 05-10-2005 9:35 AM Tal has replied
 Message 117 by EZscience, posted 05-10-2005 9:43 AM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 118 of 257 (206775)
05-10-2005 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Silent H
05-10-2005 9:35 AM


Re: Fascism: Alive and well in 21st century America
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what the poor do give the rich?
No, the rich gives the poor person income. The Consumer is the person that gives to the rich.
Those on top make money from the collection of those making less at the bottom.
That's a pyramid system. The reason a company exists is to maximize owner wealth. Whether that owner is a single business owner or millions of investors. Come on holmes, this is business 101 stuff.
The rich on the other hand may have a lot of money and shift it around a lot, but are not actually creating as much need for jobs to exist as the poor are, because plain and simple... there are much less of them.
What's your conclusion here? Poor people create jobs?
If you want to run a McD's on the number of millionaires that will walk through your door, good luck. The number of poor people on the other hand... Ka ching!
Not sure what your point is here. A person still used or borrowed money to start that franchise and gave the "poor" people jobs. And your leaving out middle class.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Silent H, posted 05-10-2005 9:35 AM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by nator, posted 05-10-2005 3:20 PM Tal has not replied
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 119 of 257 (206777)
05-10-2005 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by EZscience
05-10-2005 9:43 AM


Re: Fascism: Alive and well in 21st century America
I am opposed to the degree to which wealth can apparently buy political favors and influence the outcomes of elections in this country by devious means such as these '527 organizations'.
Like Moveon.org?
We can't get campaign finance reform because it would reduce the power big money interests wield over politics
Like George Soros?
Do we really have a democracy, or is it just a sham where we are manipulated into voting for puppets of wealth and privelidge (i.e. fascists) under the false assumption that they actually care about the interests of the general populace?
Democracy.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by EZscience, posted 05-10-2005 9:43 AM EZscience has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by EZscience, posted 05-10-2005 1:29 PM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 121 of 257 (206790)
05-10-2005 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by EZscience
05-10-2005 1:29 PM


Re: Fascism: Alive and well in 21st century America
Like a baby.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by EZscience, posted 05-10-2005 1:29 PM EZscience has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by EZscience, posted 05-10-2005 1:57 PM Tal has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 123 of 257 (206798)
05-10-2005 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by EZscience
05-10-2005 1:57 PM


Re: Fascism: Alive and well in 21st century America
Religious conviction has nothing to do with my faith in the Government.
Democrats were in power the last 40 years, Republicans started taking the power back in 94. Its the political pendulum swing. I've served in the military under Presidents that I like and Presidents I don't like. The President hasn't acted with the Military without the approval of Congress.
Sounds like working democracy to me.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by EZscience, posted 05-10-2005 1:57 PM EZscience has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by EZscience, posted 05-10-2005 3:15 PM Tal has replied
 Message 126 by nator, posted 05-10-2005 3:25 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 127 by MangyTiger, posted 05-10-2005 4:30 PM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 138 of 257 (207099)
05-11-2005 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by EZscience
05-10-2005 3:15 PM


Re: Fascism: Alive and well in 21st century America
The apparent religious convictions OF the government are one of the MANY reasons I have NO faith in it.
You are going to let others beliefs determine your own?
Also, you have faith alright. You have faith that when you die you'll black out to nothingness and universe will still revolve/expand/implode/explode.
Firstly, Congress was fed a load of malarky about non-existant WMD that was all produced / synthesized or otherwise endorsed by the administration that had a responsability to ensure its veracity.
*Beats the dead Horse*
I've said it before, I'll say it again:
Not finding something is NOT the same as it not existing! You cannot "prove" a negative. Just because something isn't here doesn't mean it wasn't before.
So does democracy still 'work' if the adminstration deceives the people and their Congress ? ( I assume you will contest this particular example, but just consider the question hypothetically).
I hate to do this to you but...
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by EZscience, posted 05-10-2005 3:15 PM EZscience has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Monk, posted 05-11-2005 1:45 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 140 by EZscience, posted 05-11-2005 1:50 PM Tal has replied
 Message 156 by Silent H, posted 05-12-2005 5:59 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 05-12-2005 9:57 AM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 141 of 257 (207139)
05-11-2005 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by EZscience
05-11-2005 1:50 PM


Re: Fascism: Alive and well in 21st century America
To clarify, I am suspicious and mistrustful of any and all politicians who try to use religious posturing/convicitons/morality or anything derived from religion for their own political purposes.
So what makes an Atheist's morality/convictions/posturing more trustful than a thiests? Both are still making decisions based on what they think is right (for the most part...at least what they think will benefit them and their constituants)?
However, the flawed intelligence presented as justification for war in 2003 was still the responsibility of the adminstration in power to verify. They produced it and convinced Congress to act on it.
No arguments here.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by EZscience, posted 05-11-2005 1:50 PM EZscience has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by EZscience, posted 05-11-2005 2:45 PM Tal has not replied
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 168 of 257 (207358)
05-12-2005 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by nator
05-12-2005 9:34 AM


Re: Not a police state.
quote:
How is working to pass laws requiring all American children pray to the Christian God in public school "leaving them alone"?
Please cite said law or proposal.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by nator, posted 05-12-2005 9:34 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by nator, posted 05-12-2005 10:21 AM Tal has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5707 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 179 of 257 (207387)
05-12-2005 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by nator
05-12-2005 9:59 AM


Re: Fascism: Alive and well in 21st century America
The point is, the rationale for invading Iraq back before we invaded was the imminent threat and chemical and biological and nuclear WMD threat the Bush administration claimed Iraq posed.
Where did anyone (besides liberals) say imminent threat?
Now, years after the invasion it is clear there were never any WMD
Incorrect. 1st of all we have the 1.77 TONS and 1,000 "Radio Active items" BUT besides that we still don't know where they went. And they went somewhere. Not finding something is not proof that it wasn't there. You can't prove a negative.
The rationale for the war is post-hoc reasoned and spun as "Saddam was a brutal dictator."
WMD was only 1 reason.
Well, there are a lot of other dictators around the world, with many being much worse that Saddam. If Saddam was so bad that we had to invade Iraq to oust him, surely there are other more murderous dictators we needed to get rid of first, such as those in African nations.
Some History is in order.
September 4, 1980: Saddam Hussein initiated a war with Iran as he attacked the oil-reserves in Iran.
1987-1988: Saddam Hussein launched the Anfal Campaign against the Kurds. 180,000 Kurds disappeared and 4,000 villages were destroyed.
March 1988: The Kurdish town, Halabaja, was gassed. 5,000 people were killed and 10,000 were injured.
August 1988: Many Kurdish villages on the Turkish border were gassed. Thousands of people died.
August 2, 1990: Saddam Hussein seized Kuwait.
1993: Saddam Hussein broke the peace terms from the end of the Persian Gulf War. The United States bombed Iraq as a result.
October 1998: Saddam Hussein failed to comply with the United Nations weapons inspectors. This action led to a four-day bombing raid by the United States.
A little more...
October 16, 2002: President Bush signed a resolution passed by Congress authorizing the United States to use force against Iraq.
November 27, 2002: Formal Weapons inspections began.
December 7, 2002: Iraq issued their official declaration of weapons to the United Nations.
December 19, 2002: Hans Blix stated, "Iraq's account is not a full account of all their weapons."
December 2002: President Bush authorized the deployment of 100,000 troops to the Persian Gulf for early January.
January 27, 2003: Blix reported that Iraq had not proved that they had eliminated illegal weapons.
March 17, 2003: United States president George Bush issued an ultimatum to Saddam Hussein. Either Saddam Hussein leaves Iraq or the United States would use force to remove him. Hussein was given 48 hours to leave.
March 19, 2003: Saddam Hussein refused to leave Iraq.
March 20, 2003: Just before dawn, the United States fired missiles at a bunker where the United States government thought Iraqi officials were sleeping.

Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by nator, posted 05-12-2005 9:59 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by nator, posted 05-12-2005 10:58 AM Tal has not replied
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