is the US sliding into Fascism? Evidence for and against

i don't think you value your freedom of association and privacy as much as i do.

Hey, great!Let me know if you want any recommendations.

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It's easy to forget that others wanted Saddam to go by force and not just the "fascist republican administration who wants to take over of the world".

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There were much worse, much more brutal dictators butchering millions in Africa about the same time we invaded Iraq, which was a relatively stable (and secular) country until we invaded.Why didn't we invade those African nations, where millions were being butchered?I'll give you one guess.It's a three letter word, which starts with "o" and ends with "l".Iraq has the third largest reserve of it in the world, and those African nations don't have much of it at all in comparison.

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No arguments here.

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So, you admit that the Bush Administration distorted the facts about Iraq and misled congress?

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But I don?t see it as dangerous that Bill Frist is a Presbyterian.

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It isn't that he's a Presbyterian.It isn't even that he may choose to live by a very strict personal Christian conservative religious code of conduct.It's that he is actively working, along with Dobson and the FRC and many other very conservative Christian religious groups, to pass legislation to require ALL Americans to adhere to a similar very strict Christian conservative religious code of conduct.Tell me, when did traditional American conservative political values change from "government out of our lives" to "government intrudes upon everyone's personal lives, especially if you are gay, a woman, an activist, a political dissident, or look like you are Arab"?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-11-2005 11:37 PM

Awww Tal, dodging my star spangled reply to your communist view of a free market system? Oh well, I thought it was funny. Yeah that was a great list of quotes. For some of those people it should be an embarrrassment, for others it should not because it does not suggest he had the capabilities claimed by this administration, nor that the actions taken by Bush were the appropriate ones.In particular, some of these were generated by the faulty US intelligence system, headed by Bush. What happened to the buck stops at his desk for major failures? Guess that went out with guts.Of course what you didn't cite were those quotes that did not necessarily agree with some of these. Indeed they came from Bush's own staff.Oh, make no mistake, I love doing this to you... From Secretary Colin L. Powell Cairo, Egypt (Ittihadiya Palace) February 24, 2001, on Iraqi sanctions...And then again in May 2001, Powell testified before the Senate... And gosh darn it if he wasn't right the first time.And in July 2001, Condoleeza Rice said... And you know what? It turns out she was right too.What about these quotes?

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

I hope you are able to discern actual information, from disinformation, which is what Tal has just brought you.While it shows that people were concerned about Iraq, and had bought into certain US intelligence reports, none of them suggest support for the course of action that Bush actually took.There is a world of difference between viewing Saddam as someone to keep in check vs someone that ought to be overthrown, and if overthrown, through what mechanisms.Remember even Bush is now dismissing that WMDs were the main reason and it is about a humanitarian social welfare program for the Iraqi people, in order to spread democracy... at US taxpayer expense.

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Actually the second largest after Saudi Arabia.
But we already have the leadership there pretty much in line It was obvious that an invasion of Iraq would cause oil prices to spike.
What never seems to get any coverage is how Bush and all the American oil industries that supported him are raking in millions in extra profit from their domestic production as a result of this effort to 'spread democracy'.

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Actually the second largest after Saudi Arabia.
But we already have the leadership there pretty much in line

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Yeah, funny how Bush is such good friends (personal family friends, too) with the leadership of a country that engages in:public beheadings
torture
severe curtailing of religious freedoms, especially of Christians
significant oppression of womenMaybe Bush got some good ideas about torture from the Saudis, who knows?

You have it backwards. Conservatives are trying to get the government out of our lives with their legislation to force us all to adhere to and financially support political programs we detest, and that were never a part of US policy until the PC police took over. Leave us alone, we leave you alone.This message has been edited by Faith, 05-12-2005 08:43 AM

Please substantiate these allegations. Otherwise you are engaging in slander.This message has been edited by Faith, 05-12-2005 08:42 AM

Did you hear about the islamic Canadian who was intercepted by American security forces on some international flight a couple months ago?They shipped him off to Syria where he was held captive, beaten and tortured, only to be finally released as innocent after Canadian consular officials got involved?Made quite a stir in Canada. This administration will do anything to deny its perceived enemies the rights and respect it affords its own citizens. And as we both know, it would dearly love to reduce those rights for its own citizens as well !

Hi schraf

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Why didn't we invade those African nations, where millions were being butchered?

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So you would have supported invading those African nations..eh? I doubt it. Would it have made a difference if the Bush admin had invaded those nations? No, there would have been a uproar against defenseless Africans. The far left would have ignored the butchering by those nations just as they did in Saddam's Iraq

Just a note:I think you mean extra money in tax breaks. Most oil companies don't gain as significantly as you'd think from oil price spikes. (Especially from oil price spikes; a long ramping-up of prices helps the bottom line.)

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'Most temperate in the pleasures of the body, his passion was for glory only, and in that he was insatiable.'

No, it’s not funny that Bush has to be friendly with the Saudis. It’s a matter of necessity and of national interest. Whether you like it or not, the Saudis and in particular OPEC control a significant portion of the world’s oil supply. I don’t like it, Bush doesn’t like it, but that’s the way it is. It is naive to ignore that fact.Many US presidents have had to endure tenuous relationships with the Saudis because of it. This goes back to FDR after WWII:

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Once upon a time, there were solid grounds for a partnership between the United States and Saudi Arabia. After World War II, the kingdom's vast oil reserves and willingness to use its production capacity to ensure moderate and stable world oil prices were rightly judged to be vital to American national security. In return for these strategic assets, the United States pledged to protect the kingdom's oil supplies and obstruct those who would seek to control them, particularly the Soviet Union. Thus, when FDR met with King Abdulaziz bin Saud in 1945, a marriage of convenience was born. Source

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So it is disingenuous for you to imply that the Bush administration is maintaining this long standing marriage of convenience with the Saudis for purely personal reasons and that he is the only US president to do so.This message has been edited by Monk, Thu, 05-12-2005 08:23 AM