COVID vaccine works - we're saved!

Here's another graph about vaccine efficacy in the United States that you might find helpful. From ABC News, this shows that in American states the lower the vaccination rate the higher the death rate. The dots in red show states that voted for Trump in the 2020 election, blue for Biden. Trump supporters tend to be reluctant to adopt covid mitigation approaches such as isolation, masking and vaccination, and states that supported Trump suffered a higher death rate.There are a number of anomalous points that are easily explainable. New York's New York City has an extremely dense population, and dense population centers tended to suffer the most. New Mexico only just barely voted for Biden and has large rural regions of Trump supporters. Pennsylvania is similar, plus it has two dense metropolitan areas, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Nevada, Arizona and George only just barely went for Biden and include large rural regions of Trump supporters. Florida's population is weighted toward the elderly because it is a popular retirement destination.I'd have to do some investigation to see if there are explanations for other anomalous points like Michigan, Utah and North Dakota.--Percy

This is likely similar to other things you've been reading and giving unjustified credence to: CDC data reveal that multiple covid jabs can knock up to 24 years off a person’s expected lifespan--Percy

Woman with tuberculosis faces jail and forced treatment after she refused isolation and visited a casino, says a headline at yahoo!news. The woman has refused treatment for tuberculosis and refused to self-isolate by riding busses and attending casinos.Tuberculosis is a very dangerous disease, killing about a million worldwide annually. It is spread in the same way as covid, through the air by people breathing, speaking, coughing, etc. Covid averaged around two million deaths annually over the past three years, making it twice as dangerous as tuberculosis. It is pretty certain that the latest variants are far less lethal than the original and delta, which is good, but it make the death rate from the early versions of covid even additionally more lethal than tuberculosis.Yet some people argue like Zach here in the comments section:

Zach:

---

She has the right to refuse treatment. This is unconstitutional and it don’t matter it’s your choice to stay away from her.

---

Zach is commenting on an article that clearly states the woman's image is not public. Since she's not wearing a dunce cap, how does Zach propose people identify her? He doesn't say. The woman's case is ongoing, but it seems likely she'll be forced into treatment.The conservative response to covid still remains a mystery in terms of its sheer dunderheadedness. They don't want masks, they don't want isolation, they don't want vaccines, and they definitely don't want shutdowns. I've lost one tennis buddy to long covid (he can't walk a hundred feet without having to rest). Another tennis buddy announced loud and long over the past couple years that covid was nonsense and that anyway he had the kind of constitution that wasn't vulnerable to it. A couple months ago he caught covid and he can't seem to get all the way back on the tennis court. He can hit lightly for ten minutes before having to rest.My friend circle tends to be older and more vulnerable than the general population, but older people can be just as much idiots as younger ones.We've known about respiratory diseases for a long time. The proper way of dealing with them hasn't changed. Covid doesn't bounce off red state borders, and those who live in red states are just as vulnerable as everyone else. More so, since red states have far fewer masks, much less isolation, and lower vaccination rates.The recognition that living in a society commits one to a social contract agreeing to do what is best for the community at large seems have been lost on large segments of the country. They think everyone should be allowed to do their own thing regarding contagious diseases, apparently forgetting the deaths and quarantines of over a hundred years ago before effective public health measures began to be employed.People we've lost to covid whose names you might recognize:

• Colin Powell
• Cloris Leachman
• Charley Pride
• Arnie Robinson (Olympic gold medalist, track and field)
• Tommy DeVito (Four Seasons, I met him briefly in '69)
• Bruce Williamson (Temptations lead signer)
• Tom Seaver
• Herman Cain
• Nick Cordero (Broadway star)
• Annie Glenn (widow of John Glenn)
• Tom Dempsey (Football place kicker)
• Ellis Marsalis (father of Brandford and Wynton Marsalis)

The most common request that unvaccinated people make when hospitalized is to be vaccinated, not understanding that it's already too late for the vaccine to help them. But it does reveal how much more clear people's thinking becomes as death approaches.--Percy

You have to ask?--Percy

Society has already made that decision. Intentionally spreading dangerous contagious disease is a crime. Some jurisdictions have specific laws about intentionally spreading disease, others handle it under "assault and battery" statutes.--Percy

What part of "intentionally" don't you understand?--Percy

Yes, obviously.Did you perhaps intend to ask if it's a crime in California?If you read this article from late last year, Do I have to tell a sexual partner that I am HIV-positive in California?, you'll learn several things.First, in 2020 California Senate Bill 239 changed having unprotected sex and not disclosing HIV status from a felony to a misdemeanor, i.e., still a crime, but a lesser one.Second, but if such sex results in actual infection then it *is* a felony punishable by jail and/or a fine.Third, such behavior is still subject to civil lawsuits.Fourth, the original law caused people to become more reluctant to get tested for HIV so as to remain unaware of their HIV status. For this reason the law had little effect on the spread of HIV but criminalized and stigmatized the HIV-positive community.Fifth, most Republicans were against the change in law.--Percy

What part of "contagious" don't you understand?--Percy

From the article you yourself cited previously, California’s HIV Transmission Laws: Updated 2020:

quote:

---

From 1988 to 2014, 800 HIV confidentiality criminalization cases were prosecuted in California. Out of the 800 cases, none of them required prosecutors to prove that transmission of HIV occurred prior to the defendant being charged. Moreover, all 800 cases ended in a conviction.

---

If you're asking how many have been prosecuted under the updated law, I don't know, but the whole point of updating the law was to decriminalize HIV transmission as much as possible. Hopefully it's been successful.--Percy

I think they should follow the standard medical advice, which is to stay home and avoid contact with other people, and to mask if they have to go out. What is it about epidemiology that you don't understand?--Percy

Just follow your own logic and you'll see the answer is no, because latent tuberculosis isn't contagious.The Washington woman you're probably thinking of does not have latent tuberculosis. She has an active infection and is contagious. Of course people with an active tuberculosis infection should not be locked up, because the vast majority of them, once informed of the diagnosis, seek treatment. But this woman refused treatment and visited places where many people congregate in close proximity, such as casinos. She was arrested because of the threat to public health and "will be held in Pierce County Jail for up to 45 days for testing and treatment until she is no longer a threat to public health, court documents say." (Tacoma woman with tuberculosis found in contempt of court after refusing treatment | CNN)--Percy

California just completed decriminalizing HIV a few years ago. Given the unintended negative consequences of criminalization, why argue for recriminalization?--Percy

You're referring to a common public misperception of how vaccination works, not to the understanding of anyone here. You keep coming back to this, but only in the form of asking questions. What do you think the lessons are of drug resistance evolution and failed cancer treatments?--Percy

You're asking "Are you still beating your wife?" style questions, i.e., questions that imply the person they're addressed to holds opinions that they do not actually hold.No one believes that locking people up is the appropriate general response to epidemics and pandemics, not even close. It does occasionally happen that contagious people refuse treatment and refuse to isolate, and so law enforcement and the legal system have to intercede in the interests of public health.If you actually know anything then why are you posting taunts in message after message instead of telling us what you know?--Percy

That's great! I think everyone here would love to learn something new. Please begin your explanations for how drug resistance evolves and why cancer treatments fail and some physics and mathematics and how that is all relevant to the Socratic-style questions you've been asking.--Percy