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Author Topic:   COVID vaccine works - we're saved!
Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004

Message 105 of 1110 (887573)
08-10-2021 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
11-09-2020 8:31 AM

Covid vaccine: First 'milestone' vaccine offers 90% protection
90% protection of what?
But wait, was it all those prayers?
Before 2019 it was widely known that vaccines that don't kill the virus can make it mutate into stronger variants. Since vaccinated people can still carry and transmit the virus, I would say this is most likely true. So what does the vaccine actually solve? In the long run more people may die.
We are being told to vaccinate to "stop the virus" ~Dr.Fauci
This seems to be a lie.
Sounds like a money making machine to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 11-09-2020 8:31 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by PaulK, posted 08-10-2021 3:12 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 107 by Tangle, posted 08-10-2021 3:33 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 108 by AZPaul3, posted 08-10-2021 5:50 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 109 by kjsimons, posted 08-10-2021 6:44 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004

Message 131 of 1110 (888184)
09-09-2021 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by PaulK
08-10-2021 3:12 PM

I think you mean vaccines which only protect against the symptoms - which is not the case of any of the COVID vaccines available
No that is not what I meant. The science behind what I am saying has been around for a half a century already.
Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens | PLOS Biology
You can't really go by what you hear today about Covid, one because it is being politicized, and 2 because there hasn't been enough actual science done about what is happening.
The massive reduction in hospitalisations alone saves lives. The reduced number of infections slows the spread. And fewer infected people means less risk of catching the disease - and fewer mutations in the virus. It’s the unvaccinated who are the problem
You just completely by-passed my point. Right now it would appear that the vaccine is saving lives, but is it really? All the numbers being reported say that vaccinated people are half as likely to transmit the diseae. However, vaccinated people are 10x(?) more likely to go out into crowds and catch it. If it is possible that vaccines can make stronger pathogens appear, then our future doesn't look too bright.
Doesn't anyone remember 30 years or so ago when doctors started prescribing antibiotics less because the overuse of antibiotics can lead to antibiotic resistant bacteria?
Sounds like the lies of someone who wants people to die.
Comments like these, the memes, and the fallacy about drinking bleach, are what led me to leave this forum for so long. I guess people are still not capable of rational discussion. Due to that fact, I can't really respect the opinions of anyone who behaves like that.
Just FYI, I am a Director of Facilities for a very large Nursing Home now. I worked through this entire pandemic and risked my life to save those of the elderly. I live in NY and had to endure Cuomo sending us Covid infected residents to a facility that is in no way set up to handle such an infectious disease. He put them all at risk, and me and my familiy. I watched people die. I also watched how the vaccine is saving them. I am not anti-vax. The vaccine is good for them, so far, but people are still getting sick and dying.
So do me a favor and all of you take your stupid childish comments and stick them up your ass. The title of this thread is "we're saved". I don't see that as a reality. In fact the end result may be worse....or not. 2 weeks to flatten the curve and herd immunity were both lies. We are just about at herd immunity, and Covid is worse than ever.
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by PaulK, posted 08-10-2021 3:12 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by PaulK, posted 09-09-2021 10:20 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 133 by nwr, posted 09-09-2021 10:45 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 134 by Percy, posted 09-09-2021 5:59 PM riVeRraT has replied

Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004

Message 135 of 1110 (888204)
09-10-2021 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by nwr
09-09-2021 10:45 AM

The evolution caused by both is not different.
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by nwr, posted 09-09-2021 10:45 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

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 Message 137 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2021 9:13 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004

Message 136 of 1110 (888210)
09-10-2021 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by PaulK
09-09-2021 10:20 AM

Just because the Right has decided to support the virus doesn’t mean that the science isn’t being done
The virus and the vaccine do not have a political party. The right has made no such choice. I guess you forgot that Trump got all this under way.
Thanks for proving my point about this being political, thanks to people like you.
No, I did not “bypass your point”. I pointed out that the vaccine is saving lives and went on to point out relevant issues. The fact that vaccinated people are less likely to catch and spread the virus is relevant - that is not the case with Marek’s disease in chickens. I’ll grant that people shouldn’t take the vaccine as a license to return to pre-COVID behaviour - but that isn’t a problem with the vaccine.
Right now the unvaccinated are the major problem
And you bypassed my point.....again.
Well I’m glad you recognise that your opinions don’t deserve respect. And thank you for not inflicting them on us, even for a short while. I raised rational points against your argument and you just ignored them
No you haven't and you implied my motive, "that I want people to die". Stop lying.
The fact that you are scaremongering about the vaccine undercuts those assertions
Facts are not scaremongering. Are you incapable of factual discussion?
No, you are NOT near herd immunity. Herd immunity requires something in the range of 80-88% immune. (Wikipedia)
Only 60% of the total population of New York City is fully vaccinated (71% of adults) and rates are worse outside the city.
Spreading doubt about the vaccine will not help
Sorry, that's not what Fauci is preaching.
We will never reach herd immunity, since the vaccine doesn't make you immune. You expect me to believe the people who have been lying to us for 2 years now? Let me go over some of the lies that I lived through in real time:
There is no person to person transmission
This did not come from a lab
We did not fund gain of function research
Herd immunity will stop Covid
18 days to flatten the curve
Wearing 1 disposable mask a week is ok
I can go on and on. Again, I remind you I am not anti-vax. I just want to be realistic. We are not saved.
I took the first shot of the vaccine and it almost killed me. Now it's mandated and my healthcare system won't write me an exemption (because of politcal bullshit). Everyone does not have to be vaccinated.
This whole pandemic has been nothing but one bad decision after another. Saying we are saved is a joke.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by PaulK, posted 09-09-2021 10:20 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by PaulK, posted 10-05-2021 4:23 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Member (Idle past 496 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004

Message 138 of 1110 (888216)
09-10-2021 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Percy
09-09-2021 5:59 PM

The data is unambiguous that the vaccine is saving lives. Of all people hospitalized with covid, less than 5% of those who die are vaccinated
You are also missing my point.
Then you have to man up when people note its ignorance
It's factual. Big pharma is making millions. I find it funny how liberals will bash big corporate driven by profit, yet ignore the profit of this vaccine. You should have more of an open mind and question everything.
Despite working in large facilities all my working life, I picked up remarkably little about the management and operations of large facilities. In the same way, a person will learn remarkably little about health and medical issues from working in facilities management at a health care facility.
Yes becuase people like yourself have trouble understanding the physical plant. However I am not afforded that same luxury in my job. I must understand certain things about health in order to do my job correctly, especially infection control. I have had to teach staff like you on several occasions what they are responsie for, and what I am.
Many people in many industries have been and still are being placed at risk. Nationally, extremely few elder care facilities were prepared to deal with a virus like covid. The virus swept through assisted living facilities and nursing homes everywhere all across the country. Nationally about 8% of residents died
Not once, but twice. The first time they refused to use the Javits center, and the hospital ship because that would make Trump look good. The second time, there was no excuse at all, they should have been prepared for the second wave that they themselves were predicting.
The politics game being played now is killing people.
This was never said by anyone knowledgable. What is true is that if everyone around the world masked up for real for a month it would not just flatten the curve but put an industrial sized dent in it. And herd immunity, which given the delta variant could be somewhere north of 85%, would make any region relatively safe until invaded by hardier variants.
Fauci is not knowledgable?
I agree with you here, but it will never be a reality. The world is not capable of quarantining. I knew this from the start. If we get a real dangerous virus, we are all dead.
And since there was never enough vaccine for the world, the more virulent delta strain has made the situation even worse
Yep, and the virus will continue to evolve. Let's hope it won't get worse. It is a very real possibility that vaccines will make it worse.
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Percy, posted 09-09-2021 5:59 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Percy, posted 09-10-2021 5:00 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 142 by vimesey, posted 09-11-2021 3:56 AM riVeRraT has not replied

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