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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
Yep, that is a problem, n'est ce pas? In fact, every Christian I have ever met (including myself) has been not only dishonest, but disgustingly evil as well. The problem is that the vast majority of Christians are too dishonest to actually admit just how evil Christianity has been and is still today. Evil religions like Christianity attract evil people - that's how the cookie crumbles, I'm afraid.Edited by Dredge, .
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
Jesus wrote "The Communist Manifesto" - historical fact.
Jesus was a communist
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
Right on, brother! Why can't those idiots get it right?!
You just touched on a pet peeve and wish of mine: Believers should learn what their beliefs are and where they came from (ie, what they are actually based on).So many believers actually think that their beliefs come from the Bible even though that is not true.
That's because not everything is in the Bible.
What we encounter all the time are "believers" who believe in things that aren't even in their religion.
Horrendous.
I think that every believer needs to study his religion as thoroughly as possible, which must include learning the history of individual beliefs.
Ain't that the t-r-u-t-h! Reminds me of John Henry Newman (1801-1890), a Anglican priest and theologian who set out to study the history of the early Church to disprove the Catholic claim that she is the very same Church set up by the apostles. After studying Church history, Newman became convinced that the claim of the Catholic Church is correct - it is the true, apostolic Church.Newman then converted to Catholicism, was ordained a priest, rose to the rank of Cardinal and was canonised as a Catholic saint in 2019. Newman famously said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant."
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
This is right up there with your best work; no doubt about it. Well done. That's not the way I remember it. "To be deep in religion is to cease to be human." I may be wrong but I believe that this is the proper quote. Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, .
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
With devastating arguments like that you could destroy Christianity.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul writes:
Sorry, but you've got your wires crossed. Galatians 2:1-9 clearly demonstrates that, not only was Paul not the leader of the Church, but that he was under the authority of Peter and the apostles: Then you have no objection to the fact that it wasn't Peter but Paul that formed and led the catholic church. Paul was sent by the Holy Spirit to the Church leaders in Jerusalem to give account of what he had been preaching. The leaders (including Peter, James and John) subsequently approved Paul's preaching and extended to him "the right hand of fellowship". Acts 15 also clearly demonsrtates that Paul was not the leader of the Church: Firstly after having a disagreement with certain Jewish Christians, Paul went to the Church leaders in Jerusalem to have the matter settled (v.1-2).Secondly, at the following Jerusalem Council, Paul's role was minor and he made no doctrinal decision. In fact, it was Peter's doctrinal decision that settled the debate on whether or not Gentile believers must follow the law of Moses.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
This is nonsense. There is nothing in the books of Acts that suggests "the many different churches were separate and independent". On the contrary, Acts describes a Church that is a single, discrete organisation led by and under the authority of Peter and the apostles. Each of the many different churches were separate and independent
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Fake history is fine for some, but it's not my cup of tea.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
Jesus gave "the keys of the kingdom of heaven" to one man - Peter - thereby making Peter the head of the Church. (Matt 16:18-19)
And I can do the same. Your bible shows quite clearly that Paul, not Peter, wrote out the instructions for the conduct of service and the philosophical underpinnings of his newly created religion. Yours is a Paulene church. Created in his image.Violent, hateful and pitifully inhumane. Catholic.
You sound pretty adept at the hate game yourself.Edited by Dredge, .
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
Well, since you know all things, so you must right. Do you really think your bible has any legitimacy at all? It doesn't.Edited by Dredge, .
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
ringo writes:
The power of infallibility was not given to Peter until later - when the Holy Spirit descended on the disciples on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2, which marked the official birth of the Church. And yet Peter denied Jesus three times. How does that demonstrate infallibility? Btw, what is your understanding of the Catholic doctrine of Papal Infallibility? I suspect you don't understand it because even if Peter denied Jesus in the same way after the day of Pentecost, that wouldn't contradict the doctrine.
But He didn't overturn the truths that He had explicitly told them - e.g. the instruction to give up everything they had.
When did Jesus give the instruction that all his followers must give up everything they have?
And you're claiming that the early churches, set up by the apostles themselves, were not faithful to the teachings of Christ?
God killed Ananias and Sapphira. Who killed Ananias and Sapphira?Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, . Edited by Dredge, .
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
jar writes:
Where is that prophesy of Jesus in the Bible?
Phat, I'm simply reporting what is actually written in the Bible stories. In the stories Jesus told his disciples that the End Times would be during their lifetime. Time passed. All the first crop of disciples was dying off yet there was no End Times or signs of End Times. Jesus prophesy failed.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
I most certainly will keep that fact in mind. You should keep that fact utmost in your mind as you venture into these discussions. The more of your posts I read, the more I'm convinced you're some kind of man-god or god-man. Have you ever thought of starting your own cult?Edited by Dredge, .
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined:
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AZPaul3 writes:
You betcha! All the other cults I joined turned out to be duds, but I've got a real good feeling about you. You're bloody awesome!
Yes. And I have tax-free status. Would you like to join? Do you have $1000 and a PayPal account?
Yes and yes! But I want to give you more than $1000 ... is that okay?
It's tax deductible.
The good news just keeps coming!
But that's not all. Join now and receive an additional membership for half price.
Wow, this sounds too good to be true! If I pay for my friend, can he join also? He's even dumber than I am, so he could really use your super-human wisdom, knowledge and guidance.Edited by Dredge, .
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Dredge Member (Idle past 104 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined:
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Dredge writes:
When did Jesus give the instruction that all his followers must give up everything they have?ringo writes:
Simply from a practical point of view your interptetation of those verses makes no sense. For example, where would Christians live if they gave up all their possessions? How could they pay the rent?
Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22.A Christian can't own even a frypan or a knife and fork? A Christian can't own a radio or a phone or a bicycle or a car? Can a Christian own a towel? What about a pencil? How would Christians be able to raise children if the parents give away all their possessions? A Christian can't own a business? ringo writes:
In Matt 19:21, Jesus says "If you would be perfect, sell what you possess and give it the poor". So Jesus is in effect saying "ideally, this is what you should do", because that particular man he was speaking to had a particular problem - he loved money more than he loved God (it is also an allusion to the vow of poverty that all Catholic priests will take later on in the history of the Church). In the following verses Jesus talks about how the love of money is a danger to salvation. Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22. In the parallel passage in Mark, Jesus warns those "who trust in riches" - ie, those who make money their god. To interpret Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:21, Luke 18:22 as "Jesus says all his followers must give away all their possessions and live in poverty" is a stupid and incorrect exergesis.
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