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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Jesus Christ is certainly a human construct. He was constructed first by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (and they weren't all using the same blueprint). He was thoroughly renovated by Paul. And many theologies - e.g. yours - have practically demolished Him. Religion may be a human construct. Jesus Christ is not."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
We've been through that before. John 1:1 does not say that Jesus was the Word. So you are telling me that He was NOT in the Beginning...Please, do the homework. Find anywhere in the rest of John or the whole New Testament where Jesus is referred to as the Word. Phat writes:
That's a whole different construction crew. One conclusion is not necessarily inferred by the other but both are based on the same evidence.
... and that by inference God does not exist except as a human creation? Phat writes:
The drowning man reaches out to a passer-by and says, "Let me help you. Let me pull you in."
If so we need to find you help. Phat writes:
Now you're just being silly. The one who believes in leprechauns is more likely to need counselling than the one who doesn't. I suppose that we wont find much help in an anti-theism thread except perhaps a psychiatrist or two and mental health counseling."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
AZPaul3 writes:
I didn't say I don't treat them alike. I only meant that they were constructed by different people in different times. So what’s missing that would cause you to treat god in the same way you treat jesus? Or is there some additional element here that prevents their both being treated alike?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
What I said doesn't "lead" to that question. You're just trying to evade what I said. Which leads to several questions.How does the Bible describe God as sounding (as reported by those who claimed to hear Him?) Try again:
quote:Have you done the homework? "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Then you should understand that the word "word" does not refer to Jesus. I did do the homework.... I did a quick (30 minute) scan again this morning: Interestingly, the word "word" is capitalized only in John 1:1 and John 1:14 in the KJV. But it's the same word, capitalized or not, G3056 in Strong. Here's every instance of the word "word" in John:
quote:Note that the context usually suggests that the word is separate from Jesus. Here's every instance in the whole New Testament where "Jesus" and "word" are used in the same verse:
quote:Note the context again. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How (why) would you conclude that? How do you know it isn't a mountain range? There may be many paths up the mountain, but there is One character of God at the top...."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Of course it does. That's the whole point. You said: quote: and I replied: quote: If there are many paths, why do you assume they're all up the same mountain? Why do you assume there is only one mountain? All you've done is deny, deny, deny. Why don't you actually THINK about the question?
Your feelings are worthless. Say something substantial.
OF COURSE you have to explain why. It's a discussion site. Step one is explaining. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
So you're not skeptical about your own infallibility. Thus I can and will maintain some skepticism pending further evidence. (Evidence for me being less strict. If I see it, I likely will believe it, all other things being normal...."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You think you infallibly know about His infallibility. Its not MY infallibility. If anything, it is His infallibility."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
On the conrtary, you have described yourself exactly as infallible. You trust infallibly that you have the right spirit dialled in.
To say that choosing this decision makes me infallible is stretching it a bit. Phat writes:
Of course it does. Doubt is the foundation of all rational thought. You can't reason without reliable premises and reliability must be tested.
To think otherwise means that your expectation of fallibility within humans equates to doubt. Phat writes:
It's not a retreat. It's a stronghold. It's the high ground. And a hasty retreat back to measurable evidence, which is a weak place to hang out."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Again, that's extremely rich coming from you. You're the one who gives little weight to the dusty old book.
Only if you choose to give more weight to Rene Descarte than you do to St.Paul or the authors of the Gospels. Phat writes:
And you're the one who dismisses the clear meaning of the scriptures in favour of your self-serving interpretation, which you can't back up.
The clear meaning of the scriptures clashes with Descartes "Age of Reason" philosophies. Phat writes:
Same thing. If you're certain that you're right but you have no rational basis for your conclusions, then you believe you're infallible. And that's arrogance.
Infallibility suggests arrogance. I would go more with certainty. Phat writes:
You should stop talking about what scripture "clearly says" because you reject scripture. Scripture clearly tells us that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways. In any case, "double minded" does not refer to being fixated on one conclusion with no rational basis.
Phat writes:
YES. Of course it does. "Cold feet" happen before almost every wedding. There would probably be fewer divorces if more people paid attention to the temperature of their feet. Your way suggests that were a man to employ your "doubt" in his life, he would likely second guess his proposals even to marriage...such that the girl would likely dump you. (If you want an example of somebody who thinks like you do, watch Bus Stop, starring Marilyn Monroe.)"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
How can you call yourself a "moderate" when you agree whole-heartedly with the Right and admit that you don't know what the Left thinks? ... the US is becoming less nationalistic and more globalist. We compromise far too much in this area. Right Wing patriots see this. As for Left Wing patriots, I'm not sure how they see anything apart from individually rather than collectively."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
No, I have said that ideologies are for lazy thinkers. Skeptics need to be skeptical about everything. I have also said that in some ways I am more conservative than you.
You yourself have claimed Far Left ideology, and I like talking with you. Phat writes:
You also don't know what "Far Left" means. So you were right the first time - you don't know what the Left thinks.
When I say I don't know what the Left is, what I really mean is that I dont understand a reason anybody would want to be Far Left. Phat writes:
No. God got rid of Joe McCarthy. Didnt Joe McCarthy get rid of all of you unpatriotic Globalists?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I've never claimed any moral high ground. What I've done is point out that YOUR God is entirely made up - i.e. you don't even accept your own source ( the Bible) unless it suits you.
How dare he claim the high moral ground when he did nothing more that I could see than hand out spare change. Phat writes:
No he really doesn't. That's a good place to start figuring out how honest he really is. Now I love Isaiah Saldivar. Isaiah is humble. Many in my inner circle know him personally. He really does encounter and cast out demons."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 766 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The same way you can be so sure that Santa doesn't exist. How can you be so sure that demons (or unexplained multiple personalities of some as yet unexplained source) do not exist? The realquestion here is: How can YOU and Saldivar be so sure that they DO exist?
Phat writes:
There are plenty of alternative explanations, one of the most obvious being out-and-out fraud. You KNOW there are fraudulent examples of "exorcism".
I don't think you have any reasonable alternate explanations. Phat writes:
No I don't. I CONCLUDE that without objective evudence there's no justification for assuming that something does exist. You use the same methodology for Santa, leprechauns, etc.
You simply assume that anything that cannot be objectively evidenced is non-existant. Phat writes:
And yet you haven't been able to show us one honest one. I don't believe that *all* apologists are snake oil salesmen."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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