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Author Topic:   An Ether-Based Creation Model
Phat
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Posts: 18456
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


(1)
Message 140 of 589 (886384)
05-18-2021 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by dwise1
04-30-2021 1:05 PM


This Thread Expressed Through Cartoons
The Wise One brings to mind the specific cartoon mentioned.
As I read Michael MDs premise and arguments, I notice a pattern. See if you can spot it.
MichaelMD snippets taken from posts writes:
My Creation Model is based on a theory...
In other words Michael is essentially imagining/creating a pet theory and attempting to shoehorn his thought process and intuition into scientific facts if he can find them to support it. Which reminds me of another cartoon.
Also I noticed Michael's choice of wording in his replies:
The ether, from an overall standpoint, would be steadily "trying" to "correct" what it "perceives" as "new gaps" in the ether, between the two bodies, in order to to restore the same state the ether has in outside space, but never quite doing it, due to the ongoing stream of etheroidal units from the interiors of the solid bodies. -The result is that there are two opposing forces producing the "pull" of gravitation, which makes it a less forceful form of energy than forces like magnetism, but gravity maintains its lesser force, and maintains itself, through equilibrating with the other cosmic forces and unit-moieties in the region.
So let me get this straight. A new model is being proposed. (Imagined or created in the mind of the author)
  • How does the ether try.
  • How can "it" correct itself (or reality, for that matter.
  • How can ether perceive?
  • Explain more fully this perception of two opposing forces. I'm somewhat fascinated. (Or delusional...the jury is still out. )
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 125 by dwise1, posted 04-30-2021 1:05 PM dwise1 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 141 by dwise1, posted 05-18-2021 4:28 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 142 by Michael MD, posted 05-19-2021 8:02 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 143 of 589 (886410)
    05-19-2021 2:47 PM
    Reply to: Message 142 by Michael MD
    05-19-2021 8:02 AM


    Re: This Thread Expressed Through Cartoons
    Would you consider yourself a Creationist or does the belief in a living higher power seem irrelevant and silly to you, as it does to many here?

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 142 by Michael MD, posted 05-19-2021 8:02 AM Michael MD has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 144 by Michael MD, posted 05-21-2021 12:51 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 199 of 589 (887321)
    07-31-2021 10:29 AM
    Reply to: Message 198 by dwise1
    07-31-2021 10:21 AM


    Re: This Thread Expressed Through Cartoons
    First off, Dwise1, I note that you are even nice to your antagonists. You have the rare art of being able to reprimand and belittle someone's intelligence without belittling them personally.
    As for you, Pastor...how have you been?
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 198 by dwise1, posted 07-31-2021 10:21 AM dwise1 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 208 by dwise1, posted 07-31-2021 11:12 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 200 of 589 (887322)
    07-31-2021 10:34 AM
    Reply to: Message 170 by ICANT
    07-28-2021 6:37 PM


    Re: This Thread Expressed Through Cartoons
    Pastor, I appreciate you having a heart for Michael. None of us fully understand the mind of God except through Christ and even then we are mere infants in our knowledge of Him. Turning to the Science behind these theories is one social icebreaker to initiate conversation, but I keep in mind that the question becomes
    1) Is It Science?
    2) Did He always exist? (Before we humans could even be evolved enough to invent Him)
    3) Are supernaturally guided events by nature scientific in the sense of measure and objective evidence?
    God Bless

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 170 by ICANT, posted 07-28-2021 6:37 PM ICANT has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 220 by ICANT, posted 08-01-2021 1:51 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 201 of 589 (887323)
    07-31-2021 10:40 AM
    Reply to: Message 194 by ICANT
    07-31-2021 2:02 AM


    Collision Or Expansion?
    I just HAD to ask The Oracle at Google for some information about this assertion!
    If the universe is expanding, why are we on a collision course with the Andromeda galaxy?
    I'm still confused.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 194 by ICANT, posted 07-31-2021 2:02 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 202 by PaulK, posted 07-31-2021 10:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 215 by dwise1, posted 07-31-2021 5:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 203 of 589 (887325)
    07-31-2021 10:45 AM
    Reply to: Message 187 by AZPaul3
    07-30-2021 2:22 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    AZ writes:
    That is what everyone has been telling you. Origins we don't have. No one has.
    All of us have an origin. Don't we?
    1) Is it a common origin?
    2)Is it entirely biological and chemical or is this conclusion unknown?
    3)Were we given brains and minds to lead, follow, or get out of the way?

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 187 by AZPaul3, posted 07-30-2021 2:22 AM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 209 by AZPaul3, posted 07-31-2021 11:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 204 of 589 (887326)
    07-31-2021 10:53 AM
    Reply to: Message 188 by Taq
    07-30-2021 12:20 PM


    Re: Fair Warning
    Taq do you personally think that non-life could ever produce life? As I ponder it, it seems fairly obvious. A spark of some sort is needed. Sorta like Frankenstein.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 188 by Taq, posted 07-30-2021 12:20 PM Taq has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 221 by Michael MD, posted 08-01-2021 5:53 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 205 of 589 (887327)
    07-31-2021 10:57 AM
    Reply to: Message 184 by Tanypteryx
    07-30-2021 12:49 AM


    Re: Fair Warning
    Why do you get so mad at him? He is just trying to have a conversation!

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 184 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-30-2021 12:49 AM Tanypteryx has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 207 by PaulK, posted 07-31-2021 11:06 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 210 by nwr, posted 07-31-2021 11:25 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 212 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-31-2021 11:52 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 206 of 589 (887328)
    07-31-2021 11:00 AM
    Reply to: Message 197 by AZPaul3
    07-31-2021 2:55 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    However, do understand that objective reality is supreme and requires lots of very strong evidence. Evidence which you cannot provide.
    Objective reality will in time provide its own evidence. It won't ever be your evidence which defines (or refines the definition) of objective reality. It is the other way around. We are all on a level playing field.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 197 by AZPaul3, posted 07-31-2021 2:55 AM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 211 by AZPaul3, posted 07-31-2021 11:28 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 222 of 589 (887347)
    08-01-2021 6:07 AM
    Reply to: Message 221 by Michael MD
    08-01-2021 5:53 AM


    Re: Fair Warning
    Are you thus indirectly saying that your Ether Model itself was/is/always could be an explanation for the origin of life? Let's step back a moment and see the bigger picture here.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 221 by Michael MD, posted 08-01-2021 5:53 AM Michael MD has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 223 of 589 (887348)
    08-01-2021 6:14 AM
    Reply to: Message 218 by ICANT
    08-01-2021 1:13 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    ICANT writes:
    ...On the other hand, if you believe the universe is eternal (always existed in some form) you are not a creationist.
    Then you say:
    ICANT writes:
    You can go back and read posts I made when I first came to EvC. You will find where I said then that I believed the universe had always existed in some form just not as we see it today.
    Thus is it fair to say that you don't consider yourself a creationist in any way shape or form?
    Are you arguing that a Believer in God (the uncaused first cause hypothesis) is NOT a Creationist?
    I suppose we could call ourselves Creator-ists.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 218 by ICANT, posted 08-01-2021 1:13 AM ICANT has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 240 by ICANT, posted 08-02-2021 1:20 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 224 of 589 (887349)
    08-01-2021 6:33 AM
    Reply to: Message 214 by AZPaul3
    07-31-2021 3:11 PM


    The elephant In A Room as BIG as the Universe
    AZ writes:
    You're saying the universe, all there is, requires a beginning.
    Why?
    Because this concept includes your mind and your mind requires a beginning. If even as much as one subset within the whole requires a beginning, the whole itself cannot eternally exist without a beginning.
    AZ writes:
    The elephant is still in the room and is stepping on your toes, Reverend.
    Let's just hope the elephant doesn't pass gas or we are ALL in trouble!
    Get your math right and your physics right and your question is answered.
    How would we know when our data is "right?" WHO determines what is and is not "right"?
    AZ writes:
    Since your message was not to me and I corrected your factual bs I'll leave your belief bs to others.
    I'll take his "B.S." and call the abbreviation "Blessed Savior!

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 214 by AZPaul3, posted 07-31-2021 3:11 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 226 of 589 (887351)
    08-01-2021 6:55 AM
    Reply to: Message 198 by dwise1
    07-31-2021 10:21 AM


    Re: This Thread Expressed Through Cartoons
    dwise1 writes:
    What a complete farking icehole you are! (Quick! Name that movie! It's your only chance at Redemption.)
    Though I confess I consulted the Oracle, I came up with Roman Moronie's speech:
    Perhaps by consulting a human-created Oracle I lost my opportunity at redemption, but I will still keep praying for all of us and not just myself.
    EvC can be a holy place if we follow rule 10 in the Forum Guidelines

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 198 by dwise1, posted 07-31-2021 10:21 AM dwise1 has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 227 of 589 (887352)
    08-01-2021 6:59 AM
    Reply to: Message 225 by AZPaul3
    08-01-2021 6:53 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    AZ writes:
    Actually, there is an energy force that is blowing this universe apart in an accelerating expansion of spacetime and the expected long-term results will be the death of the universe by freezing. Eventually, the last photon will be expanded out of existence. The Heat Death of the universe.
    My questions would likely be as follows:
  • Will darkness and Light still exist in theory if not objectively?
  • Will our minds and souls exist long after our bodies have been vanquished?
  • Can we make a conscious choice to be part of light or part of darkness and, if so, do we know which is which?

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 225 by AZPaul3, posted 08-01-2021 6:53 AM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 229 by AZPaul3, posted 08-01-2021 7:16 AM Phat has replied
     Message 233 by ringo, posted 08-01-2021 10:31 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18456
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 230 of 589 (887355)
    08-01-2021 7:24 AM
    Reply to: Message 229 by AZPaul3
    08-01-2021 7:16 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    I didn't. But I expected you to think a bit about philosophy and about how not all religionist types are clueless and dense. Not that I claim any special status yet. It's all up to my Boss. And He cares about you too, even though you don't knowingly work for Him.
    Edited by Phat, : spelling

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 229 by AZPaul3, posted 08-01-2021 7:16 AM AZPaul3 has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 231 by AZPaul3, posted 08-01-2021 7:37 AM Phat has not replied

      
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