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Author Topic:   An Ether-Based Creation Model
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 165 of 589 (887261)
07-28-2021 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Michael MD
05-21-2021 12:51 AM


Re: This Thread Expressed Through Cartoons
Hi Michael,
Michael writes:
Phat: If you check back and read my opening Post at page one of the Thread, I presented a fairly lengthy theoretic model for how a first sapient My model went from an initial universal spatial oscillation, to a universal etheric setting consisting of independently-vibrating point-like localities, and then to how quantum/atomic moieties could have arisen within a region where more linear forces happened to exist, and how sapience could have developed in a "cosmic egg" moiety that produced a sapient entity.
I see you are just like these posters here.
I have been asking for years where whatever it was that the universe was formed from came from?
The best answer I have got so far is "We don't know".
So I will ask you the same question where did the "Entity could have arisen as part of a first-causal cosmic setting." come from.
Better yet is where did it exist?
Don't get me wrong. I do believe there is an energy field in which the universe exists. I believe the universe has always existed in some form just not in the form we see it today. I believe in the future it will melt and then be re-created and it will not look like it does today.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Michael MD, posted 05-21-2021 12:51 AM Michael MD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Michael MD, posted 07-28-2021 7:51 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 166 of 589 (887262)
07-28-2021 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Tanypteryx
07-27-2021 4:13 PM


Re: Fair Warning
Hi Tanypteryx
Tanypteryx writes:
Prayer and supernatural revelation
From his opening statement I don't believe he believes in either.
He is just looking for a reason he can believe in the Cosmic egg theory of creation.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-27-2021 4:13 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-28-2021 10:38 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 169 of 589 (887266)
07-28-2021 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Tanypteryx
07-28-2021 10:38 AM


Re: Fair Warning
Hi Tanypteryx
Tanypteryx/qs writes:
Huh, I've never heard of that. Beliefs are pretty worthless too.
So are you saying all the assumptions that have to be believed and accepted to get the Big Bang Theory off the ground are worthless also?
Definition of assumption: a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof. assumption - Search
So you never heard of Hawking/Hartley instanton or Son Goku and cavedivers little pea sized something that became the Universe?
We sure have discussed it a lot over the past 13 years.
Michael has to make certain assumptions to get his theory off the ground. His assumptions sounds just as true to me as your assumptions unless you have a source for all the energy that had to begin to exist as the universe had to have a beginning to exist.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-28-2021 10:38 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-28-2021 8:15 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 170 of 589 (887267)
07-28-2021 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by Michael MD
07-28-2021 7:51 AM


Re: This Thread Expressed Through Cartoons
Hi Michael
Michael writes:
If an underlying ether exists, it would have to be universal, and to have formed first-causally. In the very beginning,
That does not tell me anything about where the ether came from.
Michael writes:
it is assumed that all that existed was universal space.
So you are assuming that all universal space existed?
But where did that space come from if there was not existence?
Michael writes:
In my ether model, a creational Entity arose after the etheric processes in a local spot happened to be very linear, where the linearity of the ether units caused their vibrations to align mutually with each other, so that they entrained with each other, producing larger and larger units, up to the size of quantum units. This quantization of ether units then produced a "cosmic egg" quantal moiety, which then became a sapient Entity, as speeding ether units happened to tangentially contact it, producing reverberating energy circuits, which were able to form intelligence and consciousness.
As I understand this model all this stuff, thingamagiggers, and whatever was just floating around in existence for eternity past until some point " a creational Entity arose". This entity started the events that eventually " became a sapient Entity". Which "produced reverberating energy circuts, which were able to form intelligence and consciousness".
So let me be very clear here.
You say something had to exist prior to T=0.
This something jostled around and eventually the universe appeared.
That sounds more logical than what they have been telling me for the past thirteen years. They tell me space, time, energy, matter, did not exist at T=0.
The reason being that math they keep pounding on you about breaks down and becomes silent at T=0.
I don't know why they keep harping math to you when they don't have any.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Michael MD, posted 07-28-2021 7:51 AM Michael MD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Michael MD, posted 07-29-2021 7:36 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 198 by dwise1, posted 07-31-2021 10:21 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 200 by Phat, posted 07-31-2021 10:34 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 173 of 589 (887279)
07-29-2021 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by Tanypteryx
07-28-2021 8:15 PM


Re: Fair Warning
Hi Tanypteryx
Tanypteryx writes:
I am interested in observational data. Watching and recording a supernova evolve in multiple wavelengths and at multiple energies and seeing how well the observations match predictions. Observing completely new phenomena, trying to observe it again and understand it is science.
Yes that would be science.
So is the study of the human body.
So is the study of the earth and what is in it. etc
Tanypteryx writes:
All those hypotheses that you get your panties in a bunch about are not the answer because we haven't collected nearly enough data yet.
Since there is zero data, or experiments, of what existed at T=0 the Big Bang Theory is not a theory as it is based upon an assumption but a hypothesis. Yet it is taught a a fact.
Remember the definition of an assumption? "a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof."
Tanypterys writes:
Any actual theory of the Universe has to include explanations of ALL THE DATA that we have observed so far.
So where is the data that supports the universe popping into existence out of non existence?
At least Michael is not trying to support such an idea as he has something existing that caused the universe to begin to exist.
All though he won't give a source of that something. He just assumes it was there and caused the universe to begin to exist over time.
Could you explain the difference between Michael's assumption and the assumption that is required for the BBT.
There must be a universe existing in some form for it to expand and us be able to observe and study that process.
Since I came here in 07 my question has always been, "Where did it come from"?
Would you like to give it a try? Insted of your snide remarks as you ended the post with.
You are a puppet that has drank the koolaid and believe everything you are told rather than have an open mind and question everything.
Just give me the facts.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-28-2021 8:15 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-29-2021 11:45 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 177 by AZPaul3, posted 07-29-2021 1:40 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 174 of 589 (887280)
07-29-2021 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Michael MD
07-29-2021 7:36 AM


Re: This Thread Expressed Through Cartoons
Hi Michael
Michael writes:
When you ask me to clarify what the ether is with respect to space,
I did not ask what the ether is in respect to space.
I simply asked where it came from.
If it had existed eternally in the past would mean all the energy that is in the universe today had to have existed in the beginning. If that was the case by now there would be no energy left as it would have reach equiliberium, a state in which opposing forces or influences are balanced. Therefore we would not be here. This was the problem with the steady state theory held by Einstein. Therefore the realization that the universe had to have a beginning to exist. Which is why scientist tell us the universe is somewhere between 8 billion and 20 billion years old. The age depends on who you listen too.
Michael writes:
(Being first-causal in origin, they are "elemental," and had their origin in a world-setting very different from ours.)
Since energy can not be created would require that at the beginning all energy in the universe today had to already exist. Or do you propose a way that energy can be produced as Guth did to get his zero energy universe?
Michael writes:
Since it was derived from original space,
Where did this original space come from?
Michael/qs writes:
While we are not able to demonstrate the ether scientifically, at least not yet, neither is there a clear definition of what "mass" actually is.
I am sitting here in a seat typing this message on a keyboard. Both are considered to be mass, but in reality they are only atoms that are held together by some unknown energy force. Remove that force and the chair and keyboard would disappear.
Everything in this universe is held together by that same energy force.
By the way if you will click the peek mode on the top right of this message you can see how we quote each other.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Michael MD, posted 07-29-2021 7:36 AM Michael MD has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 179 of 589 (887291)
07-29-2021 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Tanypteryx
07-29-2021 11:45 AM


Re: Fair Warning
Hi Tanypteryx
Tanypteryx writes:
Like I said before, you are demanding an answer, when you know full well that the data is insufficient to provide an answer.
The answer is "WE DON'T KNOW!!"
I was only asking you.
I know several in the scientific communities answer is ""WE DON'T KNOW!!" as I have been told that by several scientist.
Since no one knows where or how the universe began to exist, how can we know how we got from there to here?
I live in South Florida so I decide to go to New York City how many choices on travel by land do I have to get to my destination?
You want to tell me the way you believe we got from T=0 to where we are today is the only correct way possible. Why do you believe that?
Tanypteryx writes:
The fact is, you are an insulting ASSHOLE who knows Jack Shit about physics.
I have never claimed to know anything about physics.
I do claim to know non existence can not produce existence.
I was raised on a farm and I know life produces life, but a dead animal could only produce a bad odor.
If I remember there was quite a few experiments trying to produce life from non life that all failed.
I also claim that the universe has always existed in some form just not as we see it now.
If it did not always exist then it had to begin to exist which requires a creation to take place.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-29-2021 11:45 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-29-2021 8:09 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 180 of 589 (887292)
07-29-2021 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by AZPaul3
07-29-2021 1:40 PM


Re: Get Real.
Hi Paul
AZPaul3 writes:
Incomplete knowledge of T=0 DOES NOT negate BBT!
But it does relegate it to a hypotheses without certain assumptions.
AZPaul3 writes:
Lambda-CDM model
Parametrization is the process of deciding and defining the parameters necessary for a complete or relevant specification of a model or geometric object. What would those parameters be based upon?
First we have a cosmological constant associated with dark energy.
Then the postulated (suggest or assumed existence of) Cold Dark Matter.
With the third ingredient of ordinary matter.
So what does that explain?
It does tell us what the universe has in it. Not its origin.
AZPaul3 writes:
Well enough to be beyond challenge by anyone in this forum.
There you go closing your mind to any other possibilities.
AZPaul3 writes:
Just like the vaccines. Our knowledge of virology may be forever incomplete but we know, with certainty, vaccines work.
But no vaccine is 100% effective.
AZPaul3 writes:
it is real and we have the evidence of its reality.
Just because you believe it does not make it so. Science has changed a lot in my 82 years on this planet.
AZPaul3 writes:
No, it doesn't answer your unanswerable T=0 question but neither does anything else in our knowledge base, yet.
The BBT can never answer what existed at T=0 as the math no longer works therefore there is no information available to process.
Religion or Metaphysics will have to produce that information.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by AZPaul3, posted 07-29-2021 1:40 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-29-2021 8:15 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 187 by AZPaul3, posted 07-30-2021 2:22 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 189 by Michael MD, posted 07-30-2021 12:36 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 183 of 589 (887295)
07-30-2021 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Tanypteryx
07-29-2021 8:09 PM


Re: Fair Warning
Hi Tanypteryx
Tanypteryx writes:
Yeah well, that was fiction, Dr. Frankenstein was not real.
But the Miller and Urey experiments were real back in the 50's.
They were trying to prove several things.
To see if biological compounds could form spontaneously on early Earth
To see if simple molecules can combine spontaneously.
To find out how biological molecules could have first formed
How life can evolve from nonliving matter
Other experiments.
Redi's Experiment 1668.
Lazzaro Spallanzani's experiment.
Pasteur's Experiment.
All of these experiments proved non life could not produce life. They did prove that life produced life.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-29-2021 8:09 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-30-2021 12:49 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 188 by Taq, posted 07-30-2021 12:20 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 185 of 589 (887297)
07-30-2021 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by Tanypteryx
07-29-2021 8:15 PM


Re: Get Real.
Hi Tanypteryx
Tanypteryx writes:
Now that is funny!
Glad you thought so but your thoughts don't change reality.
Do you think that in the future time travel will be discovered and someone can go back to T=0 and then return and write a scientific paper as to what was there and how things really happened?
If the first statement was funny this one is probably hilarious.
God Bless,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-29-2021 8:15 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-30-2021 4:41 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 186 of 589 (887298)
07-30-2021 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Tanypteryx
07-30-2021 12:49 AM


Re: Fair Warning
Piss Off!
OK
God Bless, and you have a nice life now.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-30-2021 12:49 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 193 of 589 (887315)
07-31-2021 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Michael MD
07-30-2021 12:36 PM


Re: Get Real.
Hi Michael
Michael writes:
This Forum is called Creationist. -Why aren't members freely open to new creationist ideas? Most of the posters seem to prefer non-creational "random universe" consensus theory and hypothesis.
Actually anyone who believes in the BBT is a creationist whether they admit it or not.
The BBT requires a beginning to exist.
Einstein believed in a steady state universe until it was discovered that the universe was expanding, in 1929, by Edwin Hubble.
But he was not the first to propose an expanding universe. Lemaître was the principal architect. In 1927 he combined his dynamical solutions of the Einstein equations with astronomical observations to conclude that the universe is expanding. https://arxiv.org/abs/1107.2281
If space is what is expanding between galaxies at the speed of light all galaxies should be moving away from each other.
Well that is not what is happening. galaxies have collided in the past and we are on a collision course with Andromeda. This has been known for years. But when talking about expansion this elephant in the room is pushed into a corner and he does not exist.
Space between the Milky Way and Andromeda is not expanding but contracting.
If the fabric of the universe is being stretched in both directions from the halfway point between Andromeda and the Milky Way the space between them would be increasing by 88.234 miles per second.
How would they ever collide?
Maybe some of these smart people would explain the math that would allow them to collide.
So Einstein had to change his thinking.
But if the universe was expanding it would have to have a beginning to exist. You ask why? Well because energy and mass can not be created even though Alan Guth did so with math. Which was rejected except for a few around EvC.
To get around the problem of energy and mass being created it is just said that the laws of thermodynamics just did not apply to the early universe.
I notice in your ether theory you try to solve the energy problem by collision of universes.
But where did all this energy that these universes had in the beginning come from?
I believe the universe has always existed in some form just not in the form we see it today. I believe the universe was created from an energy source that is unlimited in volume. I believe there was a light period that existed eternally in the past that caused the CMBR that we see today.I believe time is a creation of mankind that was determined by the Egyptians using the duration of a light period and a dark period which they divided into 24 hours of 60 minutes per hr. with each minute 60 seconds long. I believe that in the future there will come a time when time will be no more as there will only be light with no darkness. This will take place after the earth and universe has melted with fervent heat.
So don't let these guys get you down. Just keep on searching and one day you may find the answer to where the universe came from and what holds it together today.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Michael MD, posted 07-30-2021 12:36 PM Michael MD has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by ringo, posted 07-31-2021 12:08 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 214 by AZPaul3, posted 07-31-2021 3:11 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 194 of 589 (887316)
07-31-2021 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Taq
07-30-2021 1:09 PM


Re: Get Real.
Hi Taq
Taq writes:
We see expansion occurring evenly across the entire universe. All galaxies are accelerating away from us at the same rates no matter which direction we look.
That is not true.
We are on a collision course with Andromeda.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Taq, posted 07-30-2021 1:09 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Phat, posted 07-31-2021 10:40 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 195 of 589 (887317)
07-31-2021 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Taq
07-30-2021 12:20 PM


Re: Fair Warning
Hi Taq
Taq writes:
Their experiments were never about that. They simply wanted to see if biomolecules could emerge from simpler molecules.
They were trying to reproduce the early earth and produce life forms.
quote:
Stanley L. Muller and Harold C. Urey performed an experiment to describe the origin of life on earth.
why did miller and urey do their experiments - Search
quote:
Miller experiment)[2] was a chemical experiment that simulated the conditions thought at the time (1952) to be present on the early Earth and tested the chemical origin of life under those conditions.
Miller–Urey experiment - Wikipedia
Seems like they were trying to produce life from chemicals to me.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Taq, posted 07-30-2021 12:20 PM Taq has not replied

  
ICANT
Member (Idle past 108 days)
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


(1)
Message 196 of 589 (887318)
07-31-2021 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by AZPaul3
07-30-2021 2:22 AM


Re: Get Real.
Hi AZPaull
AZPaul3 writes:
No one has.
I do.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by AZPaul3, posted 07-30-2021 2:22 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by AZPaul3, posted 07-31-2021 2:55 AM ICANT has replied

  
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