When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?

jar writes:In the Bible Satan is simply a tool that God uses. To consider Satan as evil your apologists need to ignore as always almost all of what is actually written in the Bible.

Matt 4:1-11 writes:Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
'He shall give His angels charge over you,' and, 'In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.'" 7 Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.'" 8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'" 11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
NKJV

ringo writes:If you're going to defend them, defend what they say. Don't just deny, deny, deny.

Rom 4:18-6:9 writes:18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be." 19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead-since he was about a hundred years old-and that Sarah's womb was also dead. 20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." 23 The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness-for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.Romans 55:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned- 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 66:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin- 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dRom 6:9-14
ead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

ringo writes:You dismiss the Bible as a dusty old book, so what's the point of quoting it? We're talking about what the apologists say ABOUT the Bible.

Phat writes:You seem to teach that Christianity is about what we do, but what we do is reflected in whom we serve.

jar writes:So you assert but reality says that is just word salad with absolutely no true meaning or value.

Feed the hungry, comfort the sorrowful, clothe the naked, protect the weak... it really is that simple. Who we serve should be the least of these our brothers.

Phat writes:Christianity is a called-out group of people who serve God first and through that Spiritual Communion take care of each other.

Phat writes:Christianity is a called-out group of people (as were the jews)who serve God first (Loving Him with their whole heart, soul, mind, and strength)and through that Spiritual Communion take care of others(The Least Of These).

Phat writes:So am I preaching to the goats?

jar writes:No, rather bleating with all the other goats.

jar writes:The Apologist says, "Do this and you will get rewarded, here on Earth or in Heaven!"
Jesus said "This is your duty. It's not important whether you get rewarded or not, it is your duty."

jar writes:How does one love God with all their heart, soul, mind, body, strength?

jar writes:Well, how exactly can someone hold a conversation with God and know that it is God responding?

1 John 4:1-6 writes:4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

ringo writes:Again, I don't have to believe Frodo was real to quote The Lord of the Rings. I don't have to believe Tolkien was infallible either.
Why is that so hard to understand?

jar writes:Can anyone discus any god or God that is not just a human creation? The God(s) of the Bible are all just human creations.

Phat writes:Is Jesus a human creation?

jar writes:If you mean any Jesus that anyone can discuss then Yes, Jesus is absolutely a human creation. All we can ever know about "Jesus" are the descriptions of the character Jesus in different stories written by humans, redacted by humans, marketed by humans. The whole reason the Gospel of John was written was to create a different Jesus than what had been created in the other Gospels.

jar writes:Yes, that is something you claim to believe. But to support that you use what? Answer: What is created in a book.

Acts 1 writes:NIV
:1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."6 So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"7 He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day's walk from the city. 13 When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James. 14 They all joined together constantly in prayer, along with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers.15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16 and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as a guide for those who arrested Jesus- 17 he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."18(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20 "For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms,
"'May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,'
and,
"'May another take his place of leadership.'

jar writes:So you assert yet you never provide evidence or reasoning to support such a claim.

Rom 12:1-3 writes:NIV
12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-this is your spiritual act of worship. 2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will.3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

jar writes:I do not claim that God will save everyone but rather that if God really is the creator of all, seen and unseen and if there is something after life and if God will judge the fate of each person after their life it will be a judgment based on what they did during that life with the further possibility of forgiveness of such judgment by God.

jar writes:We will be judged by what we did and what we could have done and the judge will have perfect knowledge of both.

jar writes:Again you approach the concept of GOD, God, god but never seem to really comprehend it.

You also do not believe what the Bible says or what the Nicene Creed says. You need to read both since they both tell the story of Jesus' creation.

Your beliefs are fine, anyone can hold whatever beliefs they want but as a Christian, it is a good idea not to contradict the basic documents of Faith or to at least admit that you are throwing away the basic documents of the Faith and creating something new.

jar writes:You admit that you cannot support or explain or rationalize how you can know "... know exactly what it is that I have experienced and I have an inner peace and confirmation when I pray that confirms my communion with God individually at least." and yet your only statement is once again "I say that I disagree with what you teach or what I perceive as your teaching.", once again without any reasoning, rationalization or supporting arguments.

jar writes:Almost every single god or God we can possibly name exists only because we have a written or oral record that contains a description of the character and nature of that god or God. Most are pretty specific and consistent. The various Gods mentioned in Vedas and other Hindu scripture each have specific defining characteristics and recognizable forms. The same is true of the Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Norse, Native American, Taoist, Buddhist religious deities and spirits.But they all are mutually exclusive (with the possible exception of the Greek/Roman pantheon) and most everyone outside the particular religion readily acknowledges that all the others are simply human creations.The outlier are the Hebraic religions. There we find no uniformity in the descriptions or characteristics of the God(s) and god(s) contained in the stories. In fact, we find mutually exclusive descriptions of the character called God throughout the writings.In addition, as seen here at EvC even those who profess to be Christians cannot arrive at an adequate and acceptable description of the Christian God that can be supported by what is written in the stories without excluding almost all of the other aspects and characteristics found in the Bible stories.The only way to allow the God of Genesis 1 and the God of Genesis 2&3 to be the same critter is to acknowledge that each description is the God as seen or imagined by one group of people at one time in history. In other words, the two Gods are each the creation of some author or authors within a particular mythos.

jar writes:In addition, as seen here at EvC even those who profess to be Christians cannot arrive at an adequate and acceptable description of the Christian God that can be supported by what is written in the stories without excluding almost all of the other aspects and characteristics found in the Bible stories.

jar writes:The Trinity is an invention of a time hundreds of years after Jesus, not something that existed at the time any of the Bible stories were written.

jar writes:The Trinity is a human creation and has whatever meaning humans give it.

jar writes:Yet Jesus Christ is only knowable as a character in stories written by humans.

jar writes:I never even mention anyone getting closer to God. In fact I say that is utterly irrelevant. I say we should simply try to do what we are charged to do. Not to get closer to God but because it is the right thing and what we were told to do. It is our duty.

I am simply pointing out what is written.