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Author Topic:   When Will The End-Times Be And How Will We Know?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 226 of 794 (877015)
06-01-2020 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by PaulK
06-01-2020 12:30 PM


Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
PaulK writes:
Do angels even have free will? That’s something I’ve seen denied
I always believed that Angels had free will but no opportunity for repentance. Once you decide, the decision is forever yours.
Ps 103:20-22 writes:
NKJV-- Bless the LORD, you His angels,
Who excel in strength, who do His word, Heeding the voice of His word. Bless the LORD, all you His hosts, You ministers of His, who do His pleasure. Bless the LORD, all His works,
In all places of His dominion. Bless the LORD, O my soul!
This scripture mentions God's Word. My side says that His Word was in the beginning, before all stars,planets, galaxies, and ideas of ancient goatherders were even conceived.
An opponent might claim that humans wrote, edited, redacted, and defined any and all Bibles and that in fact words are spoken only by and through humans, as far as we currently know.
Let me see what Google has compiled on this:
LTB.Org writes:
no scripture declares that angels have no free will. From the fact of the fall of so many of them, they obviously have some form of self- determination. That is, they have the freedom to remain in that holy estate into which they were placed by the creation or to leave their first estate for a lower one. "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day" (Jude 1:6). Clearly, they are not robots unable to do anything but obey God.
However, their condition is not like that of man. Man can be redeemed from his fallen state by the applied blood of Jesus Christ. The fallen angels have no means by which they can return to their first estate after they leave it. They will all be cast into the "everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41).
Also, there is no mix of obedience with disobedience in the angels as there often is in regenerate man. The angels in heaven perform the commandments of God with full obedience (Psalm 103:20-21). The fallen angels are simply "the angels that sinned" (2Peter 2:4). No good is seen in them.
We will probably never be able to grasp with fullness the reason for the angels to rebel against God and leave their heavenly estate. They saw God in His absolute glory and holiness. They saw the greatness of His power. What could they hope to gain by a rebellion against such a God? However, scripture does reveal the initial motivation for their rebellion. From a study of Satan and his part in leading the rebellion, we know that their rebellion was fueled by willful pride. Isaiah 14:12-15 gives important insight into this matter. In this passage, Satan (as Lucifer) states five times, "I will." Especially revealing is his fifth declaration: "I will be like the highest" (Isaiah 14:14)
I know you will point out that it was the King of Tyre and not Satan, but the apologists claim the "type and shadow" argument. After all, if you can successfully argue that the Bible is simply a product of human belief and intelligence, You certainly can make a case that God is also such a human creation. Which you do. This is your world view.
Can you see mine?

The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by PaulK, posted 06-01-2020 12:30 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by PaulK, posted 06-01-2020 2:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 229 by jar, posted 06-01-2020 2:30 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 227 of 794 (877016)
06-01-2020 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by ringo
06-01-2020 12:41 PM


Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
ringo writes:
Even IF your God was infallible, you would also have to believe that you could infallibly understand Him.
OK, I will concede the fact that we do not know all of the facts nor have all of the understanding.
I have experienced enough from prayer that I won't place all my eggs of understanding in the science basket either, however.
There are several reasons why.
  • Humans are imperfect and willfully so. We think that some actions of the flesh are to be allowable and pleasurable if we don't have a reverence for God.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 225 by ringo, posted 06-01-2020 12:41 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 230 by ringo, posted 06-01-2020 3:41 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    PaulK
    Member
    Posts: 17822
    Joined: 01-10-2003
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 228 of 794 (877017)
    06-01-2020 2:05 PM
    Reply to: Message 226 by Phat
    06-01-2020 1:58 PM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    quote:
    I always believed that Angels had free will but no opportunity for repentance. Once you decide, the decision is forever yours.
    And I’ve seen it said that angels don’t have free will.
    quote:
    This scripture mentions God's Word. My side says that His Word was in the beginning, before all stars,planets, galaxies, and ideas of ancient goatherders were even conceived.
    An opponent might claim that humans wrote, edited, redacted, and defined any and all Bibles and that in fact words are spoken only by and through humans, as far as we currently know.
    Much of the Bible makes no claim to be God’s Word and much of it is explicitly or implicitly the work of humans. Even the words attributed to God are reported by humans.
    quote:
    I know you will point out that it was the King of Tyre and not Satan, but the apologists claim the "type and shadow" argument.
    Which is fairly obviously an excuse for a misinterpretation.
    quote:
    After all, if you can successfully argue that the Bible is simply a product of human belief and intelligence, You certainly can make a case that God is also such a human creation. Which you do. This is your world view.
    You just have to read the Bible to see that is IS a creation of human belief and intelligence, it indicates as much and the many errors confirm it,

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 226 by Phat, posted 06-01-2020 1:58 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 229 of 794 (877018)
    06-01-2020 2:30 PM
    Reply to: Message 226 by Phat
    06-01-2020 1:58 PM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    "Type and Shadow" is simply "Smoke and Mirrors"; it is word salad the apologists market because they know their audience decided to turn their brains off and check them at the door. Pitiful!

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 226 by Phat, posted 06-01-2020 1:58 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 231 by Phat, posted 06-02-2020 1:23 AM jar has replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 230 of 794 (877025)
    06-01-2020 3:41 PM
    Reply to: Message 227 by Phat
    06-01-2020 2:04 PM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    Phat writes:
    OK, I will concede the fact that we do not know all of the facts nor have all of the understanding.
    Then how can you not question your understanding?
    Phat writes:
    I have experienced enough from prayer that I won't place all my eggs of understanding in the science basket either, however.
    That's entirely different. Science is self-correcting. It automatically questions itself.
    Phat writes:
    Humans are imperfect and willfully so.
    Speak for yourself. You are wilfully in denial but that doesn't mean all of us are.
    Phat writes:
    We think that some actions of the flesh are to be allowable and pleasurable if we don't have a reverence for God.
    That statement seems to be floating in the void with no relationship to anything else you said. It is not a reason for rejecting science.
    Yes, we do think some actions are allowable and pleasurable but that has nothing to do with reverence for God. Believers are no different.

    "I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 227 by Phat, posted 06-01-2020 2:04 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 231 of 794 (877034)
    06-02-2020 1:23 AM
    Reply to: Message 229 by jar
    06-01-2020 2:30 PM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    jar writes:
    "Type and Shadow" is simply "Smoke and Mirrors"; it is word salad the apologists market because they know their audience decided to turn their brains off and check them at the door.
    How is the stated behavior of the King of Tyre any different than what one would expect from satan?

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 229 by jar, posted 06-01-2020 2:30 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 232 by PaulK, posted 06-02-2020 2:05 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 233 by jar, posted 06-02-2020 8:39 AM Phat has replied

      
    PaulK
    Member
    Posts: 17822
    Joined: 01-10-2003
    Member Rating: 2.2


    Message 232 of 794 (877035)
    06-02-2020 2:05 AM
    Reply to: Message 231 by Phat
    06-02-2020 1:23 AM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    quote:
    How is the stated behavior of the King of Tyre any different than what one would expect from satan?
    How is it any different than we might expect from an ancient monarch ? And what does that have to do with taking satirical images as literal truths ?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 231 by Phat, posted 06-02-2020 1:23 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 233 of 794 (877039)
    06-02-2020 8:39 AM
    Reply to: Message 231 by Phat
    06-02-2020 1:23 AM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    Phat writes:
    How is the stated behavior of the King of Tyre any different than what one would expect from satan?
    Yes. In the Bible Satan is simply a tool that God uses. To consider Satan as evil your apologists need to ignore as always almost all of what is actually written in the Bible.
    Type & Shadow is just another Snake Oil.

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 231 by Phat, posted 06-02-2020 1:23 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 234 by Phat, posted 06-03-2020 7:54 AM jar has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 234 of 794 (877068)
    06-03-2020 7:54 AM
    Reply to: Message 233 by jar
    06-02-2020 8:39 AM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    jar writes:
    In the Bible Satan is simply a tool that God uses. To consider Satan as evil your apologists need to ignore as always almost all of what is actually written in the Bible.
    Why must you always vilify the apologists, whom you also continually lump together as if they were a bunch of Pharisees? The King of Tyre served himself. The King of Tyre had the hallmarks of what some call the unholy trinity: ME MYSELF & I. The King of Tyre is a prototype of the character that is the man of sin---the antichrist. You always limit the book to be a disconnected series of stories, myths, and legends...never connecting the teaching that Jesus Christ is in fact the Messiah and not a failed messiah as you have claimed. In addition, the antichrist is not simply behavior that humans are charged to overcome...he will be an actual person just as Jesus Christ was, is, and always will be an actual person that we accept through belief and communion and who lives in us and allows us to be a shining example of a global body of believers with the head being Him.
    Let's start with Jesus. More specifically, the temptation in the wilderness.
    Matt 4:1-11 writes:
    Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."
    4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'"
    5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
    'He shall give His angels charge over you,' and, 'In their hands they shall bear you up,
    Lest you dash your foot against a stone.'"
    7 Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.'"
    8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."
    10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"
    11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.
    NKJV
    I dont read this as a simple plot device. Jesus had an actual encounter with an actual devil who tested His character. Perhaps one can argue that the function of satan is as a test for our character and what we choose to do, but Jesus chose to serve God...rather than Himself. That's what the lesson means, in my mind. You seem to teach that Christianity is about what we do, but what we do is reflected in whom we serve. Globalism serves humans and human desires. Christianity is a called-out group of people who serve God first and through that Spiritual Communion take care of each other.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 233 by jar, posted 06-02-2020 8:39 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 235 by jar, posted 06-03-2020 10:52 AM Phat has replied
     Message 236 by ringo, posted 06-03-2020 11:04 AM Phat has replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 235 of 794 (877070)
    06-03-2020 10:52 AM
    Reply to: Message 234 by Phat
    06-03-2020 7:54 AM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    LOL
    And you show that you cannot even read or comprehend what you quote.
    Phat writes:
    You seem to teach that Christianity is about what we do, but what we do is reflected in whom we serve.
    So you assert but reality says that is just word salad with absolutely no true meaning or value.
    Feed the hungry, comfort the sorrowful, clothe the naked, protect the weak... it really is that simple. Who we serve should be the least of these our brothers.
    Phat writes:
    Christianity is a called-out group of people who serve God first and through that Spiritual Communion take care of each other.
    And that is why they will be Goats and Jesus will condemn them!

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 234 by Phat, posted 06-03-2020 7:54 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 240 by Phat, posted 06-07-2020 4:32 AM jar has replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 236 of 794 (877072)
    06-03-2020 11:04 AM
    Reply to: Message 234 by Phat
    06-03-2020 7:54 AM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    Phat writes:
    Why must you always vilify the apologists, whom you also continually lump together as if they were a bunch of Pharisees?
    If you're going to defend them, defend what they say. Don't just deny, deny, deny.

    "I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 234 by Phat, posted 06-03-2020 7:54 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 237 by Phat, posted 06-04-2020 5:29 AM ringo has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 237 of 794 (877093)
    06-04-2020 5:29 AM
    Reply to: Message 236 by ringo
    06-03-2020 11:04 AM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    ringo writes:
    If you're going to defend them, defend what they say. Don't just deny, deny, deny.
    Lets start with Paul, one of the earliest apologists.
    Rom 4:18-6:9 writes:
    18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be." 19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead-since he was about a hundred years old-and that Sarah's womb was also dead. 20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." 23 The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness-for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
    Romans 5
    5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
    6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
    9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
    12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned- 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
    15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
    18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
    20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Romans 6
    6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
    5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin- 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
    8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dRom 6:9-14
    ead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
    11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14 For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
    It's getting late, so let's discuss this more tomorrow.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 236 by ringo, posted 06-03-2020 11:04 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 238 by ringo, posted 06-04-2020 11:06 AM Phat has replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 238 of 794 (877098)
    06-04-2020 11:06 AM
    Reply to: Message 237 by Phat
    06-04-2020 5:29 AM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    Phat writes:
    It's getting late, so let's discuss this more tomorrow.
    What is there to discuss? You dismiss the Bible as a dusty old book, so what's the point of quoting it? We're talking about what the apologists say ABOUT the Bible.

    "I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 237 by Phat, posted 06-04-2020 5:29 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 239 by Phat, posted 06-07-2020 4:06 AM ringo has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 239 of 794 (877176)
    06-07-2020 4:06 AM
    Reply to: Message 238 by ringo
    06-04-2020 11:06 AM


    Re: Truth Honesty & Creativity
    ringo writes:
    You dismiss the Bible as a dusty old book, so what's the point of quoting it? We're talking about what the apologists say ABOUT the Bible.
    Would you ever accept the label of an apologist upon yourself? After all, it doesn't do much good quoting the Bible if you believe it was written by fallible humans and is itself no evidence of God or Jesus existing apart from or outside the book itself.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 238 by ringo, posted 06-04-2020 11:06 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 244 by ringo, posted 06-07-2020 1:52 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 240 of 794 (877177)
    06-07-2020 4:32 AM
    Reply to: Message 235 by jar
    06-03-2020 10:52 AM


    Loving God Leads To Effectively Loving & Serving Others
    Phat writes:
    You seem to teach that Christianity is about what we do, but what we do is reflected in whom we serve.
    jar writes:
    So you assert but reality says that is just word salad with absolutely no true meaning or value.
    Oh, stop! Your favorite scripture has Jesus saying that what we do for the least of these we do for Him. Anyone can go forth simply being a humanist do-gooder and likely will be rewarded by God for doing so, but there will come a point when they meet the King and the tears will flow. Ultimately we either serve our Messiah or we serve ourselves. It really is that simple. But go ahead and feed them. I would advise you not to make a beer run as Jesus did at the Wedding. It sends a bad message...unless you are Jesus.
    Feed the hungry, comfort the sorrowful, clothe the naked, protect the weak... it really is that simple. Who we serve should be the least of these our brothers.
    I'm not simply gonna indulge a bunch of drunks who disrupt service and loudly ask where the food is. They need to show some respect for the Spirit in charge. Their own little demons simply want them to take advantage of our hospitality while never changing their own behavior so as to become a servant like we are. I do see your point, however.
    Phat writes:
    Christianity is a called-out group of people who serve God first and through that Spiritual Communion take care of each other.
    And perhaps I should have changed that statement to read like this:
    Phat writes:
    Christianity is a called-out group of people (as were the jews)who serve God first (Loving Him with their whole heart, soul, mind, and strength)and through that Spiritual Communion take care of others(The Least Of These).
    I wouldn't go so far as to judge anybody as a goat, but if they simply are nice to people and provide beer runs and cheap clothing and food to a bunch of street people who line up daily for a handout, they arguably need to pray more and allow God to give them the anointing and power to expel some of those demons of alcoholism, rejection, curses of various kinds, and other spiritual oppressions. I have no problem with "Feed the hungry, comfort the sorrowful, clothe the naked, protect the weak..." but in order to best serve others you need Communion with the Holy Spirit or you will be at best a socialist humanist buying rounds of beers for the corner bar. So am I preaching to the goats?
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

    - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
    Anne Lamott
    I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 235 by jar, posted 06-03-2020 10:52 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 241 by jar, posted 06-07-2020 7:52 AM Phat has replied

      
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