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Author Topic:   Earth science curriculum tailored to fit wavering fundamentalists
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 825 of 1053 (760964)
06-26-2015 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 824 by Dr Adequate
06-26-2015 6:58 PM


Re: A Picture Book For Faith. See Spot Run. Run Spot, Run.
That's a pathetic joke. The strata span entire continents and you've got them building up in a river valley and even leaving the landscape intact around them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 824 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-26-2015 6:58 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 834 by Admin, posted 06-26-2015 10:45 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 837 of 1053 (761001)
06-27-2015 2:55 AM
Reply to: Message 834 by Admin
06-26-2015 10:45 PM


Re: A Picture Book For Faith. See Spot Run. Run Spot, Run.
You didn't say not to respond to this so I'm responding.
I have added some to my topic proposal in answer to Dr. A's insulting and ridiculous explanation of how strata form.
I haven't yet tried to deal with the corrections you request there though. I really prefer to use casual concepts in discussing these things, we shouldn't have to be prissily scientific about everything and even when I try to do that edge never understands me anyway so what's the point. However I do intend to add some more scientific language as you ask.
I don't see a role for me on this thread though. If you don't want to promote the proposal I still don't see a role for me here.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 843 of 1053 (761027)
06-27-2015 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 842 by kbertsche
06-27-2015 10:33 AM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
dup
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 844 of 1053 (761029)
06-27-2015 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 842 by kbertsche
06-27-2015 10:33 AM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
I don't know it from looking at the surface, I know it from all the cross sections that have been discussed here.
I don't accept that the seismic images show formerly surface features, but rather features that developed underground.
There is so much evidence that the strata deposited continuously over a short period of time such very occasional internal features could not have been on the surface long enough to explain their dimensions.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 849 of 1053 (761053)
06-27-2015 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 848 by 46&2
06-27-2015 2:14 PM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
They were looking in the wrong place.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 854 of 1053 (761060)
06-27-2015 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 851 by 46&2
06-27-2015 2:35 PM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
They were looking for the evidence in particular layers, not in the entire geological column. Some people still have that wrong idea.

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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 858 of 1053 (761065)
06-27-2015 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 857 by Dr Adequate
06-27-2015 2:52 PM


Re: Ah yes, Rationalization is a Wonderful Scientific Tool
No I don't remember.
Doesn't matter though, there IS a ton of evidence for the rapid deposition of the entire column. I'll try to make a list of it.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 892 of 1053 (761955)
07-06-2015 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 891 by edge
07-06-2015 9:58 PM


Re: Geologic column
The column has many local versions but the Geo Time Scale incorporates them all. Which are you all talking about? I'm surprised anybody would say the complete Geo Time Scale can't exist in any one place. I've never said that, and I've seen many cases where the whole range of time periods is represented.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 899 of 1053 (763474)
07-25-2015 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 896 by edge
07-07-2015 1:02 PM


Re: Geologic column
That's an impressive description of how a geologist thinks. It's really amazing how the human mind has such organizing power that even a random ink blot, or the random depositions of sediments and dead things by a worldwide Flood, can be perceived as a coherent meaningful story.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 903 of 1053 (763494)
07-25-2015 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 902 by edge
07-25-2015 1:41 PM


Re: Geologic column
As usual, it's a little more complicated than that.
Both the distribution of rocks and the distribution of fossils are hardly 'random'. They are formed by processes which leave behind evidence in the form of patterns that tell us something about the rocks themselves.
This is something that YECs need to understand. Geology is not random. If randomness were the case, then predictive tools such as basin analysis and palynology (paleontology) would not be possible. And yet, there you are drilling into formations that might not exist in the case of random geology.
I think you may have missed my point. Yes, GEOLOGY is not random but the stuff it interprets, the result of the Flood, IS random in reality, which makes it a marvel how you find such apparently consistent patterns to analyze. I spent some time studying the Rorschach test years ago, how different people deal with the random inkblots. Some "see" the most amazingly complex coherent scenes in them. The more coherent and complex the perception the higher the intelligence as a general rule, according to psychologists.
I'm not sure how to get this across to YECs. Maybe more exposure to the field, or some practical examples.
I don't know either, but I think it's possible to appreciate a lot of the work geologists do without being persuaded by the Old Earth interpretations.
TAD, I might recommend, The Map that Changed the World for a presentation on how geology started moving from a 'natural philosophy' to an actual science, although someone must have already recommended it to you somewhere in this thread. It's all about patterns and processes.
I love William Smith's map, wish I had a coherent copy of it to study. Just looked through the book at Amazon, might actually get it.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 911 of 1053 (768458)
09-12-2015 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 910 by ThinAirDesigns
09-11-2015 10:17 PM


Re: Igneous rock over sedimentary layers
Lava has burbled up through sedimentary layers and spilled over them in many locations. The Grand Canyon even. The Siberian traps. Sometimes forming sills between layers, sometimes just pushing up to the top and forming lava fields.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 914 of 1053 (768694)
09-13-2015 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 913 by Dr Adequate
09-13-2015 1:09 AM


Re: Igneous rock over sedimentary layers
No I don't have a Floodist explanation, just a tentative guess that both must have precipitated out of water as all the other sediments did.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 924 of 1053 (768824)
09-14-2015 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 923 by Admin
09-14-2015 10:50 AM


Re: Moderator Provided Information, that's wrong
So they fell out of suspension, they dropped out of the water anyway. But limestones may precipitate out as petro said, and that would be the Tapeats and the Muav.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 926 of 1053 (768831)
09-14-2015 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 925 by edge
09-14-2015 11:28 AM


Re: Moderator Provided Information, that's wrong
You are right, the Tapeats is sandstone and I shouldn't have included it.
I think that, for a layman, the confusion is understandable.
I would think so. One way or another it appears that the sedimentary particles dropped out of water, whether by precipitation or by falling out of suspension.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 929 of 1053 (768852)
09-14-2015 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 927 by Dr Adequate
09-14-2015 11:43 AM


Re: Moderator Provided Information, that's wrong
But we were talking about diatomite and volcanic tuff.
So how do you explain the layering of the diatomite and tuff? The layers look like all the other layers which were deposited from water.

This message is a reply to:
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