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Author Topic:   Open letter to all Atheists.
faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 11 of 235 (726057)
05-06-2014 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
05-05-2014 9:16 PM


Oh I don't know - I sometimes get a little kick out of offending with prayer. I like to think of it as tough love (but really it's just a guilty pleasure).

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faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 13 of 235 (726060)
05-06-2014 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Minnemooseus
05-05-2014 9:39 PM


Re: But Jesus was offended by public prayer
I've always loved those verses, since I hate praying in public. It always feels like I'm just saying "ditto" to whatever the lead person is praying about.

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Replies to this message:
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faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 19 of 235 (726084)
05-06-2014 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Dr Adequate
05-06-2014 10:06 AM


Re: But Jesus was offended by public prayer
I haven't noticed that in our church, but I can see how that might happen.
The problem I have with group prayer, is I often don't know where they're going with it, so my mind tends to wander a bit. I get all Walter Mitty at some point - until I hear "amen". Then I'm back again.

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faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 23 of 235 (726088)
05-06-2014 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Diomedes
05-06-2014 1:14 PM


Fridays are National Darwinian Logical Fallacy Day (NDLFD), where everyone wears a traditional coat made of dino sceathers. So that's out.

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faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


(1)
Message 29 of 235 (726106)
05-06-2014 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Omnivorous
05-06-2014 2:45 PM


Omnivorous writes:
You may rue the day you let government determine which prayers are officially sanctioned and which are not.
I have to agree with that statement. I can foresee a day when John McCain, after finally becoming President sometime after his 120th birthday, decides to invoke Romans 13:1-2, in order to invade the last remaining countries we have yet to occupy.

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faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 44 of 235 (726137)
05-06-2014 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Dr Adequate
05-06-2014 4:44 PM


For evolution to be true, there can be no God - or at the very least He would become a liar. So indirectly, atheism is being taught in public schools, via evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-06-2014 4:44 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-06-2014 5:00 PM faceman has replied
 Message 55 by subbie, posted 05-06-2014 7:26 PM faceman has replied

  
faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 48 of 235 (726143)
05-06-2014 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Dr Adequate
05-06-2014 5:00 PM


The "days" and "nights" in Genesis clearly rule out evolution, from God's perspective anyways. There would simply not be enough time.
If 2 + 2 could ever equal 5, then that might suggest that the laws of logic are in fact evolving. From a purely materialistic point of view, an atheist has to consider that as a possibility. So it follows that an atheist is the one who may one day teach 2 + 2 = 5.
Or maybe 2 + 2 = banana. I like that one better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-06-2014 5:00 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-06-2014 5:54 PM faceman has replied
 Message 56 by NoNukes, posted 05-06-2014 9:31 PM faceman has replied
 Message 59 by nwr, posted 05-06-2014 10:01 PM faceman has replied

  
faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 52 of 235 (726157)
05-06-2014 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Dr Adequate
05-06-2014 5:54 PM


What part got loopy? The banana? I can concede that.
A blue sky is something we can observe just about every day, so she's no more teaching atheism then if she were to proclaim up is up and down is down. Or that true is true and false is false.
Jack, on the other hand, in addition to his pink sky with green spots, might also declare that thick-boned, scaled theropods eventually morphed into hallow-boned, avian feathered flying things. But then, we can't observe that like we can the blue sky, so we would then know that Jack don't know Jack.
You're not suggesting atheism implies that there is no God, are you? Because that's unknowable from a natural worldview, so that would make atheism a belief system, possibly even a religion.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-06-2014 6:55 PM faceman has replied
 Message 72 by NoNukes, posted 05-06-2014 11:10 PM faceman has replied
 Message 116 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-07-2014 11:00 AM faceman has replied
 Message 120 by Straggler, posted 05-07-2014 1:02 PM faceman has replied
 Message 126 by RAZD, posted 05-07-2014 5:59 PM faceman has replied

  
faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 57 of 235 (726170)
05-06-2014 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Dr Adequate
05-06-2014 6:55 PM


Does evolution leave room for a supernatural Creator?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-06-2014 6:55 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by AZPaul3, posted 05-06-2014 10:01 PM faceman has replied
 Message 65 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-06-2014 10:27 PM faceman has replied

  
faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 58 of 235 (726171)
05-06-2014 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by NoNukes
05-06-2014 9:31 PM


Re: My way or atheism
No, I'm almost certain that's not what they all believe. There are some Christians who believe in evolution, though I'm not sure how they sell themselves on that.
God is not a democracy. The majority does not get to rewrite the books of the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by NoNukes, posted 05-06-2014 9:31 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
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faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 61 of 235 (726174)
05-06-2014 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by subbie
05-06-2014 7:26 PM


Good thing I didn't make that foolish choice then.

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Replies to this message:
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faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 62 of 235 (726175)
05-06-2014 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by nwr
05-06-2014 10:01 PM


Nonsense. What does logic have to do with materialism, anyway?
Absolutely nothing and that's my point. Materialism can only deal in the natural, not the supernatural. Logic, on the other hand, is immaterial. You can't hold it, it has no atomic weight, it hasn't evolved over billions of years - and yet the laws of logic are universal and absolutely nothing can violate them.
How can the atheist worldview (which must incorporate evolution) account for the existence of logic?
My point is - if atheism/evolution were true, then logic would be constantly changing and evolving. Thus 2 + 2 could one day equal 5.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by nwr, posted 05-06-2014 10:01 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by DrJones*, posted 05-06-2014 10:20 PM faceman has replied
 Message 66 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-06-2014 10:29 PM faceman has not replied
 Message 70 by nwr, posted 05-06-2014 10:53 PM faceman has replied

  
faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 63 of 235 (726176)
05-06-2014 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by AZPaul3
05-06-2014 10:01 PM


Sorry, did I miss Dr. Adequate's question somewhere?

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Replies to this message:
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faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 74 of 235 (726190)
05-06-2014 11:39 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by DrJones*
05-06-2014 10:20 PM


I agree with you, on both a: and 2:.
My point regarding "atheist/evolution" is that they're both inseparable. I know there are christian evolutionists out there, but you'll probably not find an atheistic creationist any time soon.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-07-2014 12:01 AM faceman has replied

  
faceman
Member (Idle past 3415 days)
Posts: 149
From: MN, USA
Joined: 04-25-2014


Message 77 of 235 (726193)
05-07-2014 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Dr Adequate
05-06-2014 10:27 PM


In what capacity? Did He create life and then just walk away? That doesn't make sense. A being capable of creating everything, must be more complex than His creation - otherwise He becomes obsolete.
In other words, if He is more complex than we are, it's illogical to conclude that He would create us and then fade away into obscurity.
There can be only evolution, or a creator, but not both. An evolutionary god repudiates himself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-06-2014 10:27 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 80 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-07-2014 12:24 AM faceman has replied

  
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