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Author Topic:   I don't believe in God, I believe in Gravity
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 599 of 693 (711764)
11-22-2013 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 596 by Phat
11-22-2013 1:35 AM


Re: Why would it necessarily be impossible to observe evidence of a creator God?
What I believe is totally irrelevant in this case and yes, of course I would ask how I would know.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 596 by Phat, posted 11-22-2013 1:35 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 600 of 693 (711765)
11-22-2013 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 597 by Tangle
11-22-2013 3:42 AM


Re: The Alien Done It
I would document what happened, what we could observe and put it in the unknown/unexplained folder.
No evidence of the supernatural there.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 597 by Tangle, posted 11-22-2013 3:42 AM Tangle has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 604 of 693 (711779)
11-22-2013 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 602 by Straggler
11-22-2013 9:56 AM


Re:
I don't see where there was any test of the supernatural there.
Your basic premise is flawed when you say "The hypothesis is that those who are more devout will receive healing powers from GOD. The prediction is that those who devote themselves to GOD will exhibit these healing powers."
That is not a test of the supernatural. At best your results, if the did happen show that a group of people have healing powers. It says a little about that group but nothing about the supernatural.
Again, I would not see any support for the supernatural there.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 9:56 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 605 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 10:15 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 606 of 693 (711783)
11-22-2013 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 605 by Straggler
11-22-2013 10:15 AM


Re:
I have never seen a predictive test of the supernatural proposed.
As I said, I don't see anything in your example related to the supernatural.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 605 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 10:15 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 608 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 10:23 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 609 of 693 (711786)
11-22-2013 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 608 by Straggler
11-22-2013 10:23 AM


Re:
I see the hypothesis as flawed from the beginning. I see no test of the supernatural in your example.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 608 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 10:23 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 611 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 10:29 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 612 of 693 (711791)
11-22-2013 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 611 by Straggler
11-22-2013 10:29 AM


Re:
Sorry but I get tired of repeating the obvious. Go read what I write.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 611 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 10:29 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 615 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 11:47 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 616 of 693 (711800)
11-22-2013 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 615 by Straggler
11-22-2013 11:47 AM


Re: Predictions
No, once again you simply misrepresent what I have said.
I said I see no test of the supernatural in your example.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 615 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 11:47 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 618 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 12:06 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 620 of 693 (711806)
11-22-2013 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 618 by Straggler
11-22-2013 12:06 PM


Re: Predictions
Not so.
Did you say "The above would be objective empirical evidence in favour of the supernatural claim in question obtained by the application of the hypothetico-deductive method."?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 618 by Straggler, posted 11-22-2013 12:06 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 673 by Straggler, posted 11-27-2013 1:05 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 632 of 693 (711861)
11-23-2013 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 631 by Tangle
11-23-2013 4:44 AM


Re: The Alien Done It
I don't believe any of you - yourself, Az and Jar - would say that the armless man scenario was not a miraculous/supernatural event (and yes, the words do have the same meaning in normal use) if it actually happened in the way I described.
What you believe is of course irrelevant and unrelated to fact or truth and you continue to mistake what I at least would say.
I would not see what you described as evidence of the supernatural and a most might use the term miraculous in the colloquial sense similar to "The pesto I fixed for dinner last night was miraculous."
It's ludicrously easy to invent hypotheticals where the only possible rational conclusion is supernatural intervention. The only problem here is that the supernatural doesn't exist so we're dealing with a description of the impossible and the absurd.
I agree making sh9it up is ludicrously easy but I disagree with almost all of the rest of that sentence and fully with the last sentence.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 631 by Tangle, posted 11-23-2013 4:44 AM Tangle has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 643 of 693 (711914)
11-24-2013 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 642 by Tangle
11-24-2013 3:18 AM


Re: The Alien Done It
Well, so long as it's not only you and the headless guy has stuck around long enough for science to have a good enough look and declare it real, then we re- think everything we thought we knew about everything.
Perhaps not everything but that is the best step. Put it in the unknown/unexplained folder and work on it. Tagging it as supernatural does nothing.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 642 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2013 3:18 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 647 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2013 3:03 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 648 of 693 (711941)
11-24-2013 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 647 by Tangle
11-24-2013 3:03 PM


Re: The Alien Done It
Maybe you just have a very low standard for evidence because from your example I see no evidence for the supernatural.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 647 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2013 3:03 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2013 5:47 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 654 of 693 (711949)
11-24-2013 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by Tangle
11-24-2013 5:47 PM


Re: The Alien Done It
Too funny.
I'd love to hear how a decapitated man can live for a month and why you don't think we know enough to claim it to be impossible.
So would I but at least I would know enough to not claim it was impossible since it had happened.
That is why I would place it in the unknown/unexplained folder instead of continuing to think it was impossible.
But labeling it as supernatural seems pretty silly until there was actual evidence of the supernatural.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2013 5:47 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 655 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2013 6:41 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 656 of 693 (711953)
11-24-2013 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 655 by Tangle
11-24-2013 6:41 PM


Re: The Alien Done It
Are you saying that even when we know something did happen it is impossible that it happened?
If you want to claim that something that did happen is impossible to happen I gotta wonder about you in many ways.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 655 by Tangle, posted 11-24-2013 6:41 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 657 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2013 3:40 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 659 of 693 (711980)
11-25-2013 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 657 by Tangle
11-25-2013 3:40 AM


Re: The Alien Done It
Do you believe it possible to be a christian without accepting Christ's resurrection?
Yes.
AbE:
I don't know why you keep asking questions I've answered time after time.
The question is whether or not there is anyway that the supernatural could be evidenced not what could be accepted unevidenced. It is not a matter of belief but rather science.
Someone may believe that your example is a miracle but that is NOT scientific.
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 657 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2013 3:40 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2013 11:11 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 666 of 693 (711999)
11-25-2013 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 662 by Tangle
11-25-2013 11:11 AM


Re: The Alien Done It
The issue is about evidence of the supernatural.
If we are not talking about scientific evidence then why the fuck are you posting such crap?
If you just believe it is impossible for such things to happen then that's fine, but if it happens then folk have claimed that it should be possible to scientifically examine the evidence.
If science has left the building, then why are you even wasting my time?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 662 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2013 11:11 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 667 by Tangle, posted 11-25-2013 1:51 PM jar has replied

  
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