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Author Topic:   Religious tolerance and multiculturalism
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 9 of 77 (622750)
07-06-2011 10:08 AM


Rights
And of course religious groups should have every right to protest and even threaten pro choice groups.
You have every right to burn the Qur'an and those that you offend have every right to protest you behavior.
Where is the problem?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-06-2011 8:29 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 12 of 77 (622854)
07-06-2011 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Butterflytyrant
07-06-2011 8:29 PM


Re: Rights
Two different issues.
The first is protest including threats. In the US that is a protected speech unless it is possible to show specific examples of incitement to violence.
The second is carrying out a threat.
It has nothing to do with whether the statements or actions are driven by religion or some other cause.
Speech is protected.
Acts are not.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-06-2011 8:29 PM Butterflytyrant has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-06-2011 10:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 14 of 77 (622861)
07-06-2011 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Butterflytyrant
07-06-2011 10:58 PM


Re: Rights
That of course depends on the specific speech. If you say "You are going to hell!" or "I hope you die." or "Do you enjoy killing kids?" then it's protected speech. If you say "I will beat you up." or "I will shoot you." and there is some possibility that you might actually have the capability to carry through on the threat then it might be actionable.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-06-2011 10:58 PM Butterflytyrant has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 77 (622947)
07-07-2011 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by frako
07-07-2011 1:31 PM


Re: Rights
Fortunately in the US is is not only not against the law, it is protected speech.
We are fortunate that way.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 1:31 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 4:50 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 30 of 77 (623002)
07-07-2011 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by frako
07-07-2011 4:50 PM


Re: Rights
Well, shot, hung or burned might be considered exciting violence, but it would certainly be unlikely to end in a conviction. If they said "Should burn in hell forever." then it most certainly would be protected speech, thank God.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 4:50 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 6:04 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 32 of 77 (623011)
07-07-2011 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by frako
07-07-2011 6:04 PM


Re: Rights
Quote mining don't work regardless of who is doing it.
What I actually said was "Well, shot, hung or burned might be considered exciting violence, but it would certainly be unlikely to end in a conviction."
Of course I should have said inciting, but it still works.
Of all speech that needs and must be protected, hate speech tops the list.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 6:04 PM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by hooah212002, posted 07-07-2011 6:38 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 77 (623017)
07-07-2011 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by hooah212002
07-07-2011 6:38 PM


Re: Rights
Speech everyone agrees on does not need protection. It is the very speech we most disagree with that needs protection.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by hooah212002, posted 07-07-2011 6:38 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by hooah212002, posted 07-07-2011 6:45 PM jar has replied
 Message 38 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 6:47 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 77 (623147)
07-08-2011 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by hooah212002
07-07-2011 6:45 PM


Re: Rights
That is exactly the kind of speech that needs protection.
I disagree with it, but I will also support their right to say it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by hooah212002, posted 07-07-2011 6:45 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 46 of 77 (623149)
07-08-2011 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by frako
07-07-2011 6:47 PM


Re: Rights
Yes, it even applies to stuff like that.
I was one of the folk that lived through a period here in the US where that was pretty much exactly the speech heard.
And we protected such speech and changed the whole culture of the US. I personally think the way we did it was pretty *** and so caused us even more pain in the long run, but at least speech was protected.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 6:47 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by frako, posted 07-08-2011 12:46 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 77 (623167)
07-08-2011 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by frako
07-08-2011 12:46 PM


Re: Rights
Understand, I do not say that people should not protest hate speech, in fact I believe we are under a moral obligation to speak, but I also believe that we must protect the right for even the most abhorrent speech.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by frako, posted 07-08-2011 12:46 PM frako has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 62 of 77 (626463)
07-29-2011 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Butterflytyrant
07-29-2011 1:02 PM


Re: Gone mad!
butterflytyrant writes:
If there can be a positive outcome to this it will be that intelligence groups will monitor the type of web groups he was in to try to spot people like this before they have the capabiltiy to do anything like this again. Hopefully they will be able to learn from him as they do from all killer, how to better spot people who could become a danger to others.
Spot them and do what exactly.
Do we need Thinkpol now?
Edited by jar, : hit wrong button

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-29-2011 1:02 PM Butterflytyrant has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-29-2011 9:38 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 66 of 77 (626540)
07-29-2011 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Butterflytyrant
07-29-2011 9:38 PM


Re: Gone mad!
But should they?
would say investigate if the person has access to weapons or bomb making material.
What is wrong with having access to weapons?
Do you know how easy it is to make a bomb and how many potential bomb components also have very legitimate uses?
Investigate any suspicious activity. eg scouting a particular location known to be used by the opposing groups, making large financial transactions for strange reasons etc
Do we want to make access to peoples daily actions and financial records even easier?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Butterflytyrant, posted 07-29-2011 9:38 PM Butterflytyrant has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Butterflytyrant, posted 08-01-2011 5:20 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
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