EvC Forum: Religious tolerance and multiculturalism

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Topic: Religious tolerance and multiculturalism

Blue Jay

Member (Idle past 2728 days)

Posts: 2843

From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts

Joined: 02-04-2008

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Message 21 of 77 (622896)
07-07-2011 10:26 AM

Reply to: Message 15 by frako
07-07-2011 3:02 AM

Re: Rights

Hi, Frako.

frako writes:

...saying you will go to hell if you dont follow Christ is an intent to arouse fear.

I don't think this line of reasoning is tenable or desirable in a legal system.

For example, my son has a bad habit of throwing things at my daughter, and she often gets hurt. Since she can't even crawl yet, she has no way of defending herself.

I have tried many ways of convincing my son that he shouldn't do this. Yet, the only thing that seems strong enough to protect my daughter from harm is my son's fear of spankings. In this case, arousing fear is the lesser of two evils.

If I were to abstain from all threats with the intent of arousing fear, my daughter would likely suffer immensely.

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 15 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 3:02 AM		frako has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 22 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 12:17 PM		Blue Jay has replied

Blue Jay

Member (Idle past 2728 days)

Posts: 2843

From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts

Joined: 02-04-2008

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Message 27 of 77 (622954)
07-07-2011 2:25 PM

Reply to: Message 22 by frako
07-07-2011 12:17 PM

Re: Rights

Hi, Frako.

frako writes:

And who would suffer if religious institutions abstain from threats with the intent of arousing fear that will make them comply with their desires of what one should do or not do?

Are you tacitly accepting my point that threats for the intent of arousing fear are not universally undesirable?

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 22 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 12:17 PM		frako has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 28 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 4:31 PM		Blue Jay has replied

Blue Jay

Member (Idle past 2728 days)

Posts: 2843

From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts

Joined: 02-04-2008

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Message 50 of 77 (623267)
07-09-2011 12:55 AM

Reply to: Message 28 by frako
07-07-2011 4:31 PM

Re: Rights

Hi, Frako.

frako writes:

Wel not in every case but your example is just bad parenting

, cant you get your kid to love your sister whiteout the threat of violence

You're welcome to come over and try it yourself, if you think you could do better.

Actually, you're probably not: this sounds like something my wife would be strongly opposed to. Still, the sentiment stands.

-----

frako writes:

But would it be ecceptable if i told your child that if he dosent give me his pocket money the all loving wombat in the sky will torture him for ever and ever?

I'm actually perfectly happy to let you spout whatever caricatured parodies of religious thought you want at my child: you're not very good at them, and if my son isn't capable of deciding for himself when people's claims are dubious, he deserves to be ripped off.

However, it would not be acceptable for you to say that, if my son doesn't give you his pocket change, you will personally torture him. This is because you are not merely spouting a belief system and expressing an opinion about the consequences of my son's actions, but are actually planning to take an active part in those consequences. That's what makes it a threat, and that's what should be illegal.

-----

frako writes:

The difference i think is personal gain when you threaten your child you are protecting your other child when the state threatens us with jail they protect other peoples rights when the curch tells you you will go to hell it protects its income.

I think you grossly under-appreciate the sincerity of religious folks. The vast majority of religious leaders, such as ICANT and Buzsaw, honestly believe that they are trying to help us and save us from some very serious and very real dangers, and, for the majority of them, the money is not, in any way, causally connected to anybody's eternal rewards. Sure, these opinions can have negative consequences on people's lives: but that doesn't make it a threat, and it certainly doesn't mean people should be forbidden from expressing these opinions.

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Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)

Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 28 by frako, posted 07-07-2011 4:31 PM		frako has not replied

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