Born Again

Bible Study is the Forum I feel most comfortable in because I can refer to what's in the Bible the quite naturally.But instead of quoting the Bible from the start I would ask open minded readers just to consider some thoughts. I am sure that I have been born again and can speak something about it.When you were born the first time you received a natural life. "Born again" means that in addition to the natural life that you have, you receive another life. It is the addition of a actual life compounded on the life you already have.As your original natural life began in embryonic form and grew, so it is normal that the Second Birth is a matter of an embryonic "seed" of sorts grows and develops within you.The outcome of the maturity of this second birth is that you will be just like Jesus Christ someday. In essence the new birth is the rebirth of Jesus Christ on the earth, but this time within the believer.The goal is that in eternity future God would have Christ as the Firstborn Son of God and millions upon millions of believers as the subsequent sons of God.Born again, is part of God's plan to mass produce sons of God like Jesus Christ. That is not to duplicate His Godhead or unique work of redemption, but to be a collective and corporate expression of the union of the Divine and the Human as Christ is.What else could I say? To be born again adds a dimension to human life that was not before there. To be born again completes a part of ones humanity and consciousness which previously was not there.It is like a black and white movie that suddenly finds itself in technicolor. A new dimension is added which one realizes afterwards that he or she was missing.He or she was aware that SOMETHING was missing from life. But it was not known WHAT it was. Being born again by receiving Jesus fills that missing puzzle piece with the shape that fits.Before being born again oner may talk about God, argue about God, philosophies about God, debate about God, and deny God's existence even.After being born again, He is no longer God up there, out there somewhere. God becomes Daddy - my own dear Heavenly Father. You cannot say that you no longer do not know God.You know that you have met the Father. And you know that you know.Being born of God as in John 3 is receiving something that the world cannot give and the world cannot take away. And religion cannot give it or take it away.Born again is all about an unusual and living Person - the Triune God.Now I want to give you a true testimony of a Christian friend of mine. He was a teenager when he got born again. And becoming a Christian did cause him some problems with old friends and old lifestyles. At one point he was so exasperated that he prayed that God would leave him.He told Jesus. "That's it. I don't want you anymore. I want you to come up and go out !! Up and OUT !".But it didn't work. You cannot reverse your first birth to be unborn. And once you are born again, you cannot reverse that birth.You may foolishly choose to live the life of a backslidden Christian. But that birth of Christ within your spirit, you can never undo. Whether you like it or not God has imparted something of Himself into you. And you are in His family forever. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

It is to receive another life in addition to the life that you received when you were naturally born.From the receiver's initial standpoint it is like coming to know a Person. quoted from below:Witness Lee & Watchman Nee teach regeneration Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

I don't know for certain.My opinion is that Jesus was saying that the real teachers of Israel spoke according to God's divine revelation. "Jesus answered and said to him, You are a teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things.

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Truly, truly, I say to you, We speak that which we know and testify of that which we have seen, and yet you do not receive our testimomy." (v.10,11) This strikes me as Jesus saying the He and John the Baptist and the prophets are the genuine teachers of Israel. They are speak according to the revelation of God. The genuine teacher of Israel has something learned not by rot, but by direct revelation from God.Jesus was gently chiding his superficial religious position and exposing his need to receive revelation from God in order to be among the true teachers of Israel.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

These are words of ridicule.Perhaps you use words like "spooky" as an excuse to introduce some understanding of the teaching of Jesus which is wholly unenlightened, natural, and of the carnal mind and void of spiritual experience. It might even be some antichrist teaching you wish to propogate.So you use "spooky" as a slander upon believers who have had the experience of regeneration.And "decoder ring" also is a phrase of ridicule. "But the soulish man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he is not able to know them because they are discerned spiritually." ( 1 Cor. 2:14) Perhaps some, from whom you lifted this phrase, were soulish men who cannot spiritually discern the things in the Bible. You also may be damaged in this way.So to justify your desire to impose your soulish concepts on God's revelation, you slanderously and mockingly refer to "decoder ring".In another book, Daniel, it is said that none of the wicked shall understand: "Many will be purified, cleansed, and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand." (Dan. 12:10) Being regenerated is a matter of being purified and cleansed in Christ's redemption. And spiritual growth leads to a kind of refinement. People with experience can be trusted to interpret the words of Jesus better then those who remain in their wickedness.Perhaps, you refer to "decoder ring" because you are wicked and do not understand. Rather than seek to be born again through prayer, you twist the meaning to something which allows you to remain in your wickedness. And you justify this wickedness by slandering as "spooky" the understanding of those who have been born again. And you slander them charging them of using a "decoder ring".These slanders may simply be your mechanisms to justify yourself as a wicked sinner who has no need of salvation through Jesus Christ. To simplify all the prophecy in the Old Testament with one phrase "The Assyrians are coming" is a gross over simplification. This is typical of people who rarely read the Bible but fancy themselves as experts on its contents. That is really a completely different argument.Born again strongly implies the need for growth, development, maturity. So making "renewal/revival/rebirth and ongoing process" is a poor rational for ridiculing the teaching as "spooky".That regeneration implies receiving a new life of course strongly is taught as needing the nourishment and growth of that life received. "As new born babes, long for the guileless milk of the word in order that by it you may grow unto salvation" (1 Peter 2:2) To those with experience there is no "decoder ring" involved. To be born again is to become a baby spiritually. And such a babe should long to nourish this new life by the pure milk of the word of God. For the word of God is food.However, many wicked people come to the Bible not for spiritual food but for all kinds of other reasons. They do not get the nourishing food in the word of God. And it actually acts to harden them more and more.As some of the wicked ones in this forum who year after year handle the Bible but not for its spiritual nourishment. They are not growing. Many have never become babes in the spirit to begin with.The word is not feeding them. Rather year after year it is causing them to become more rebellious, more blind, and more unbelieving.This is tragic. So do not use "spooky" and "decoder ring" to rationalize your unbelief and rebellion against the New Testament revelation. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

See the above rant.

As I see it the subject is the born again teaching of John 3 and the support one can find for it especially in the New Testament. How the Old Testament was or was not an example of ongoing renwal is not the subject of this thread.I didn't say the OT did or did not contain teaching of ongoing renwal.Nicodemus came to Jesus looking for some new teaching. Jesus told him that his need was not a new teaching but a NEW BIRTH.You skeptics can encourage each other and form your own amen corner all you want.Fallen man is "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18).Fallen man is not just estranged from knowing about God. He is estranged from the very life of God. He needs to have God as divine life born into his innermost being.I expect the response to this post to be someone's attempt to say that Paul's letter to the Ephesians has nothing to do with John chapter 3. And of course they would be dead wrong.It doesn't matter how agnostics and atheists poster themselves in thier attempt to re-sculpt the teaching of the New Testament to reflect something less radical and more benigh, permitting fallen man's being "alienated from the life of God" to retain some dignity, to persist in such alienation.The teaching of Christ to this very good and upstanding member of Jewish society (as his name Nicodemus implies "victor of the people") was that he must be born again. It was a must. "Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born anew" (John 16:7 RcV ) This is radical in every sense of the word. It goes to the root of man's problem. He does not need a new and better TEACHING. He needs a new birth carried out by the Spirit of God.Witness Lee & Watchman Nee teach regenerationEdited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

It means to no longer be "alienated from the life of God" (Eph. 4:18) Instead of being estranged and alienated from God as a living Person one comes into a union with God which is a birth.The Spirit of God joins to the human spirit and the two become one mingled spirit: "He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) Before the born again experience, there was the human spirit in a comatose and deadened condition because of sin. And there was the Holy Spirit who is God Himself.In regeneration, in being born again the Holy Spirit and the comatose and deadened human spirit unite to be "one spirit". They become mingled. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6) The translators of version are accurate to provide a capital S for the Holy Spirit and a small s for the human spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that is the cause of the human spirit to be born again. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit [God's Spirit] is spirit [the human spirit]" The birth takes place by the joining and uniting of the Spirit of God with the comatose, deadened and damaged human spirit: "He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17) In this translation it is difficult for the translators to know if they should use a small s or a capital s. As in other places in the New Testament where it speaks of the JOINED and MINGLED human spirit with the Holy Spirit. They decided to go with the small s. But the fact is Paul is teaching that the one joined to Jesus Christ is so because the Holy Spirit, the Third of the Triune God has become one spirit with the regenerated human spirit.Therefore 1 Corinthians 6:17 is support for the teaching of John 3.Another New Testament support for John 3's born again, born of the Spirit is in Romans 8: "The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God" (ROmans 8:16) The Spirit Himself being of course God Himself as the Holy Spirit. to the Christian audience, Paul reminds them that within their being there is a co-witnessing going on. The Spirit Himself is witnessing along with the regenerated human spirit of the Christian recipients of Paul's letter. This witnessing within them assures them that they are children of God. They are in a divine family.This deep inner witnessing is deeper and more real than any intellectual argument. The world cannot give this experience and the world cannot take this experience away.The Spirit bears witness jointly, in a united and mingled way with the humam spirit that we, the believers in Christ, have a deep intimate "organic" union with God.The skeptical unbeliever may scoff. The atheist may jeer and accuse. But this is not elitism. And it is not an experience that is not available to anyone who is willing to receive Christ. As many as RECEIVED HIM ..." " But as many as RECEIVED Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name,

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Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12,13 my emphasis ) When a man receives the resurrected and living Jesus Christ into his heart he is begotten of God. He receives something that he could not get because his parents may have had it. He receives something he could not get just by the excercise of his fallen will power. Not even could he obtain it by the excercise of the good will power created in the original unfallen man.The new birth is of God. It is simultaneous with opening one's being to receive a living Person. He is an unusual Person, no doubt. But He is a real and living Person in resurrection and made available in a form in which He can enter into the innermost part of our beings.When He enters for the first time there is a new birth, a spiritual birth. And the Holy Spirit bears witness within with the reborn human spirit to something which the world cannot give or take away. The receiving has become one of the children of God.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This criticism seeks to minimize the teaching "you must be born again" by insisting that Jesus was a Jew speaking to Jews.John writes in the prologue of his Gospel: "He [the Logos] was in the world, and the world came into being through Him, yet the world did not know Him.

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He came to His own, yet those who were His own did not receive Him.

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But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name ... who were begotten ... of God." (See John 1:10-13) The context is about God becoming a man and coming into the world which came into being through Him. The world did not know Him. And His own race into which He was born and for whom He was a Messiah, did not receive Him.That means the Jews to whom Jesus was speaking, in general, did not believe in Him.John says "But as many as received Him ..." to indicate though there was a national rejection of Jesus Christ, individual Jews and others who were not "His own" did receive Him.And to them God gave the authirity to become children of God for they were begotten of God. So the teaching on being born again is to whosoever would believe in the Son of God (John 3:16)Of course the book of Ephesians underscores the exact same manner. Whosoever partakes of Christ is no longer a stranger and alien to the promises made by God to Israel: In the new covenant church those of Jew and of Gentile are created one new man. And those near to the Messiah (the Jews) and those formerly far off (Gentiles) both have access to the one Divine Father through one Holy Spirit.Furthermore the great dwelling place of God living in and growing in man as the habitation of God in spirit comes into being in this one Body.And this harmonizes completely with John's Gospel that those born of the Spirit, begotten of God, and the recipients of eternal life are all those who believed into the name of Jesus.As many as received Him (Jew or Gentile) were given the right to become children of God.Witness Lee & Watchman Nee teach regeneration Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

No, I think in this thread you not me was the first person to even mention the Old Testament.You tried to water down being born again by saying the OT prophets said something non- "spooky" and which needed no "decoder ring" ---- ie. "The Assyrians are coming" Just because we first read about "born again" in John 3 does not prove it was the first time that Jesus had so spoken such a word.You do not know that Jesus had not previously taught such, and Nicodemus came by night for clarification. It is possible that Jesus got right to the point and repeated exactly what He knew Nicodemus had a problem with.I can't prove that. But neither can you prove that Nicodemus had not heard about the new birth before. And if he had, it makes sense that Jesus marvels that he is a teacher of Israel and has no revelatory understanding of such things.Besides, born of the Spirit, would have been a reiteration of an Old Testament prophecy: You only are born naturally ONCE. And you only need to be born again ONCE.No once can become unborn after one is born. Since the life of God that fallen man is alienated from is eternal life, once receiving this eternal life, it is received for eternity.And this is borne out in other discussions in John's Gospel. The new birth takes place once in the human spirit. The human soul is not in need of regeneration but transformation.Once the life is received, the soul is transformed by learning to live the new life that one has received.To do this successfully the revelation of the believer's co-death with Christ is needed. I have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live. But it is Christ who lives in me. (See Galatians 2:20).In the gospel of John this would concur with the teaching of Jesus to abide in Him and allow Him to abide in us: "Abide in Me and I in you." ( John 15:4) Of course in the natural life, being born is only the beginning. If after 20 years a man says the only thing that he has accomplished is that he has been born, that of course is very poor.Being born naturally is an initiation of a life to grow, develop, and mature. It is the same spiritually. Being born again is not an end in itself. It is a beginning of learning to abide in Him. And it is a beginning of learning that one has been crucified with Christ and raised with Christ spiritually.This is not wishful thinking. It is fact. Everyone who has been be born again sooner or latter must realize that they were terminated in thier old life when Christ died on the cross. And they were germinated into a new life when Christ was raised from the dead.This is a life long realization. Few grasp it all at once. And the realization should deepen as the Christian grows.For this abiding in Christ and learning to live in the realm of Christ the whole Bible, Old Testament and New Testament, is nourishment and sustenance.But if you do not receive the living Person of Christ, and if you are not born again, NO AMOUNT of being reminded from the Old Testament prophets is going do anything for you.Probably the humanistic opposer to the Gospel seeks to reduce the truth of regeneration to just being a matter of an ongoing reminder from the Old Testament prophets to do good things. This is a devilish twisting of the word of God.This is like Satan saying to Jesus "It is written ..." as a way to oppose God's will by pretending to use God's words."You don't need to be born again. It is not that we must be born again. It is simply that we need to be reminded again and again what some old testament prophets told us."No, the entire Scripture is the divine word of God. But Jesus said the believers have to abide in Him as branches abide in the vine. Without this abiding they can do nothing. It is true that some evangelicals have made "born again" as a "ticket" or an end in itself. Because the Lord Jesus said that one could not see the kingdom of God unless he was born again, some have made being born again as the only needed "ticket" to get in to God's kingdom.But the New Testament itself speaks of the crucialness of the new birth without implying that it is an end in itself.The only way into the human kingdom is to be born a human. However after birth the growth and maturity of human life is needed. And in the kingdom of God, no one enters without first receiving the life of God. But receiving the life of God is only a beginning for the need to abide in that life and grow into salvation.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Your word of encouragement is appreciated. I must receive it humbly and reservedly.Now, if ANYONE can possibly tell me how Jar's quote from Ephesians above cleaves apart John's Gospel and Paul's teaching, I would appreciate it.What in the world does jar hope to do by re-quoting Ephesians with a bit more of the earlier sentences ??Where's the bombshell which devastates my comparing Ephesians 4 to John 1 ?As many as received Him to them He gave the authority to become children of God. Those who were HIS OWN [Israel] did not receive Him. But as many as did, whosoever they may be, are begotten of God.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Nicodemus did know that Jesus was a teacher come from God. No one could do the signs that Jesus was doing, he said, unless God was with him.Exactly why Jesus was surprised that Nicodemus was skeptical, is open to speculation. And I can speculate just like anyone else.What is of more interest to me is the explanations of the born again experience that Jesus does give to Nicodemus. I mean why get hung up on Nicodemus's shortage of understanding, when whatever ignorance he had was remedied by the further teaching of Jesus?The chapter is filled with examples and elaborations from Jesus. Why get all hung up on what Nicodemus did not know rather than examine what Jesus was teaching him ?Even more helpful is that we have the writings of apostles who were born again and pioneered in the experience of being born again, who can help us understand what it is all about.That is assuming that the reader is really interested and is not pre-occupied with other priorities. The thread is called "Born Again".And I think Nicodemus himself probably eventually got clear. At least he is mentioned latter rather favorably compared to his clerical collegues (John 19:39), from the evangelist's point of view.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

The kind of teacher that teaches about the living God teaches according to revelation. "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because in them there is no dawn." (Isaiah 8:20) The people of God are to listen to those who speak according to the word of God and have within them some light from God.

In John ch. 3 it is the event of being spiritually BORN - a one time event.And Peter says "Having BEEN regenerated ..." (1 Peter 1:23)The audience has in the past BEEN regenerated. The event took place and is part of their past.There are two places in the New Testament where "regeneration" or "regenerated" is not used in this one time event sense.In the English translation that I use, the word "regeneration" or "regenerated" has two places that I can think of where being "born again" is not specifically meant.I will not elaborate on those two instances in this post.In this post "born again" is an event. And we have the testimony of many people in history to help us understand.It may be a dramatic event. But it may also not particularly be dramatic. One may be able to point to the moment in their past when they believed they were born again.But then again, some may not be able to easily pinpoint at what moment it took place.But natural birth, coming out of the womb, is an event, so is being born again an event.Once again Peter locates the event for his audience as having taken place in their past: "Since you have purified your souls by your obedience to the truth ... having BEEN regenerated not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, through the living and abiding word of God." (1 Peter 1:23) The Christians were born again by the living and abiding word of God. "Having been" born with a new divine life, they have continued on to purify their souls in obedience to the new indwelling life.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Do you think a man could be born again if Christ had not gone to the cross to accomplish redemption ?Do you think a man could be born again if Christ had not risen from the dead ?I think the answer to both questions is NO.In the same chapter Jesus compares Himself to the bronze serpent lifted up in the wilderness by Moses: "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that everyone who believes into Him may have eternal life." (vs.14,15) It is only when the Son of Man is lifted up on His cross in His redemptive act, that man may believe and receive eternal life.To be born again is to receive eternal life. And the redemptive death on the cross, Christ being "lifted up" which made it possible for the forgiven man to now receive eternal life, if he believes.Secondly, Jesus speaks of being born of the Spirit. And John informs us that the Spirit was not yet until Christ was glorified. "Now in the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, if anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.

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He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

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But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:37-39) I don't know how they could be born of the Spirit before they received the Spirit. And they did not receive the Spirit until Jesus was glorified.Jesus was glorified starting with His resurrection (Luke 24:26)In the eyes of Jesus, the disciples would LIVE (that is the new life) because Jesus would be resurrected: "Yet a little while and the world beholds Me no longer, but you behold Me; because I live, you also shall live." (John 14:19) Because He lives in resurrection after He goes away for a little while, they also will live. His resurrection will enable them to be born again and have new life.He will come to them as the Spirit in His resurrection state. Their being born of the Spirit is Jesus Himself coming into them in His pneumatic form.With this Paul agrees - "The last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) .Jesus accomplished redemption for the sinner by being lifted up on the cross. And in resurrection the believers can now receive the life giving Spirit and be born of the Spirit - born again. Because He lives, we who believe into Him shall live.This "live" is not to be taken for granted. This living means living in union with the God of eternal life. It is to live God Himself. It is to live in the sphere and realm of God as divine life. "Because I live, you also shall live." We can be born again only because Christ, the last Adam, after accomplishing eternal redemption, can come into our innermost being as the life giving Spirit.To be born again is to receive a Living Person, the resurrected Christ in His form as "life giving Spirit" to give God as life into our being.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Being born again in the New Testament is not "turning over a new leaf". Sorry.Being born again is not something YOU or I DO. It is something God will do in you. And if God does NOT do it in you, you can "renewal/regenerate" in any kind of humanistic or religious way you want. Your religious effort or ethical attempt at self improvement and/or self refinement will not cause you to become one of the children of God.If God does not cause you to be born again, no amount of being reminded by the Old Testament OR even the New Testament is going to accomplish the will of God in your being.The good news is that one does not have to thoroughly understand being born again in order to be born again. But one does have to believe into Jesus Christ.If you do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God, if you reject that He rose from the dead, and you refuse that He would be your Lord and Savior, it doesn't matter how many reminders from the Bible you remind yourself with.The destiny of the one who rejects Christ the Son of God, according to the same 3rd chapter of John, is to abide under the wrath of God. "He who believes into the Son has eternal life; but he who disobeys the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him." (John 3:36) If you want to be born of God you better confess that your Lord and Savior is Jesus Christ and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead.You don't have to understand that much about the Jews or Israel. You do have to receive Jesus Christ into your heart as your Lord. You just open up your heart to Jesus and ask Him for the forgiveness and to come into your life as your own Lord and Savior.And you will be born of the Spirit in your spirit. And the Lord Jesus Christ will be with your spirit. As the Apostle Paul's last written words in the NT remind Timothy: "The Lord be with your spirit." (2 Tim. 4:22) In the Gospel of John the disciples were regenerated after the resurrection of Jesus and He breathed Himself into them as the Holy Spirit: In this gesture of Jesus breathing into them God caused them to receive the Holy Spirit and Jesus entered into each of them causing them to be born again right there on the spot.Today, each of do not have the priviledge of seeing a physical resurrected man Jesus Christ lean over close to us and breath into us as a gesture of Him causing us to be born again.Nevertheless, we still can partake of the very same blessed experience by inviting the Lord Jesus into our hearts as the risen Son of God, our personal Lord and personal Savior. He is faithful to His word. And as the life giving Spirit He became He will come into our spirit to give divine life - to give Himself as eternal life: "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) He eager to come into the repentent sinner. He said he who comes to Him He would in no wise cast out. So we can trust Him to keep His word. We just have to open our self from the closed self clinging position and ask the Christ to come into our lives.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.