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Author
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Topic: Since it IS Christmas time......
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Re: Christianity and Rocket Science
It doesn't really matter to me either way. I don't see why you find it so objectionable. As Modulous postulates, it doesn't really matter what the significance is as long as it has meaning to the individual. He chooses that day as a celebration for his friends and family, and apparently not a day he reserves to smear religions. I don't find the holiday objectionable. The only problem I have with it is christianity's attempt at making it all about them. How many stories have you heard about secular groups trying to put up holiday decorations, only to have christians fight them tooth and nail? Christians make christmas ALL about jesus.
That might not be such a bad idea for yourself, Mr. Grinch. I am far from a grinch. I love christmas time!
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 33 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-25-2009 2:21 PM | | Hyroglyphx has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 37 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-25-2009 3:08 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 41 by Buzsaw, posted 12-26-2009 8:09 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 43 by Iblis, posted 12-26-2009 8:55 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 68 of 126 (540933)
12-30-2009 6:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 67 by Peg
12-30-2009 6:47 AM
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Daniel pinpoints the exact timing of the messiahs birth and death in this prophecy. Ok, so pinpoint it then. I read the "prophecy" and it is garbage. What say you?
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 67 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 6:47 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 69 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 7:05 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 70 of 126 (540938)
12-30-2009 7:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 69 by Peg
12-30-2009 7:05 AM
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You said it pinpoints the EXACT date. I read it, and it does NOT give an exact date. I don't want your interpretation of the your particular reading of it, I want you to tell me the date. The exact date of both birth and death, because you said this:
Peg writes: Daniel pinpoints the exact timing of the messiahs birth and death in this prophecy. To most of us, exact timing means at least to the day, yes? So you have this information? The exact day and where you pulled it from this prophecy. An exact number doesn't come from speaking in parables. Edited by hooah212002, : quote tags
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 69 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 7:05 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 71 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 7:28 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 72 of 126 (540940)
12-30-2009 7:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 71 by Peg
12-30-2009 7:28 AM
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Call me nitpicky, but that's not very exact. I'll have to research on the accuracy of it and get back.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 7:28 AM | | Peg has not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 73 of 126 (540941)
12-30-2009 7:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 71 by Peg
12-30-2009 7:28 AM
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At first glance, I see it is assumed the "7's" are periods of 7 years, yes? So your exactness.....is based on assumption?
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 71 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 7:28 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 74 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 7:53 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 75 of 126 (540945)
12-30-2009 8:11 AM
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Reply to: Message 74 by Peg
12-30-2009 7:53 AM
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I have never heard of a "bible rule" that "1 day=1 year". I guess that should clear up any misunderstanding about Genesis then, yes? It must be a rule that it is not 6 literal 24 hour days, but 6 years. Glad that's cleared up. Now you have to convince alot of other people, I'm afraid. However, the ages given for people are in.....years. Does that meant "1 year=100 years"? or 1000? Was Adam really like 8000 years old instead of 800? I also find it funny that you would reference the torah as a basis for your findings. So many other christians feel a disconnect between themselves and jews, mainly the ones I've encountered here. I see the connection, but do christians? Forgive me if I am not a "biblical scholar", but christianity shouldn't require years of study just to understand your book. One shouldn't have to reference texts of another religion to decipher your book. One shouldn't have to jump back and forth to understand what this writer meant, or what that writer was trying to convey. Again, apologies for my not having studied the bible as much as many others have in order to elicit fantastic, elaborate responses on the matter. Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 74 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 7:53 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 76 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 8:43 AM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 77 of 126 (540948)
12-30-2009 9:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Peg
12-30-2009 8:43 AM
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the punishment given to Isreal for failing to trust in God was that for every day that they spied out the land of cannan, they would spend wandering in the wilderness. Numbers 14:34 By the number of the days that YOU spied out the land, forty days, a day for a year, a day for a year, YOU will answer for YOUR errors forty years Ezekiel 4:6 shows another example of the bible rule of a 'day for a year' And you must lie upon your right side in the second case, and you must carry the error of the house of Judah forty days. A day for a year, a day for a year, is what I have given you Right, and both of those passages specify that the day = a year. You only then go to assume that every other reference in the whole book MUST mean a year.
in order to understand much of the OT, we need to understand jewish thought and customs...without that understanding it would be very hard to trully grasp the things that Jesus said and why he said them. Besides, the NT is a revelation of the OT...if we dont understand the OT, then we might miss some very important information in the New. Understandably so. However, many other christians, as I said before, will have nothing to do with judaism. They seem to forget that jesus was a jew and christianity's roots are in judaism.
if you want understanding, you need to ask God for it and he'll show. That may sound crazy but believe me, its not. Sorry, I've tried that. He didn't. It's a facade put up by christians as a sort of "get out clause". It's a book. You don't need to understand Dawkins to understand "The Blind Watchmaker". You don't need to ask him to explain it to you.
in some way, its absolutely imperative that you do exactly that. The entire bible, from Genesis - Revelation is linked and intertwined so that you cant have some without the others. If we were missing the OT, it would be impossible to prove that jesus was the messiah, and if we only had the OT, it would be impossible. The New testament is a testimony of the fulfillment of the Old testament. They go hand in hand and you cant understand one, without the other. Just so we are clear, and to ensure you understood what I said: you are saying the torah IS the OT? I assumed they were strikingly similar, but I thought they would have to have been different enough for two religions to be so far apart.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 8:43 AM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by dwise1, posted 12-30-2009 5:09 PM | | hooah212002 has replied | | | Message 84 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 6:27 PM | | hooah212002 has replied | | | Message 96 by greyseal, posted 12-31-2009 7:59 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 82 of 126 (541011)
12-30-2009 5:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 81 by dwise1
12-30-2009 5:09 PM
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Thanks dwise for the clarification.
BTW, you are going to attempt to discuss what the Bible says, you should study it as you say you intend to. It really is beneficial, as is evidenced by the fact that that is what turned me into an atheist over 45 years ago. I do, but it's not my main goal in life at the moment. I have more important things to do than sit round and give myself more evidence that the bible is a mythbook. I read up here and there, but it's not my main hobby. I read more of the posts here than I comment on, garnering knowledge of the rest of you.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by dwise1, posted 12-30-2009 5:09 PM | | dwise1 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 86 by dwise1, posted 12-30-2009 8:02 PM | | hooah212002 has replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 88 of 126 (541053)
12-30-2009 10:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 84 by Peg
12-30-2009 6:27 PM
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Its more like a jigsaw puzzle with a spiritual picture. In order to see the spiritual picture, you need holy spirit. Like I said, a get out clause. "you have to believe in order to understand". In other words, you have to turn your mind off in order to understand.
God doesnt give holy spirit out willy nilly, there are requirements to getting it. Don't you think being a good person should be sufficient? Why the rigmarole?
The Torah is the 5 books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) These books consist of the 'Law' of God the Old Testament is the whole collection of Judaisms writings including the Torah (law) the prophets & the Psalms otherwise known as the 'Hebrew Scriptures' or 'Old Testament' When I say the OT, im refering to the Hebrew scriptures as a whole. And the Hebrew scriptures are almost identicle to the New Testament (Christian writings) because much of what you find in the NT is from the OT. All of Jesus teachings were based entirely on the OT as were the apostles. So really, in order to understand the christian scriptures, we need to know and understand the hebrew. the thing that makes the christian religion different from Judaism is that Chrsitians were free from the requirements of the Law of Moses....these were the legal punishments & animal sacrifices required under the law in order to obtain forgiveness of sins and to be at peace with God. But the christians obtained this forgiveness and peace with God by the sacrifice that Jesus gave of himself. So Judism must look to Moses for its relationship with God, while Christians look to Jesus for its relationship with God. Thats the difference. Maybe I'm not following, but I see this, and what dwise said, and think: "how the hell can you sit there and basically say the jews are wrong?" You are both reading the same texts, but christianity is right? I'm not saying I think either is the right answer.
But the christians obtained this forgiveness and peace with God by the sacrifice that Jesus gave of himself. Did jesus not say himself he did not come to change the "law"? But rather, basically enforce it?
But the christians obtained this forgiveness and peace with God by the sacrifice that Jesus gave of himself. ONLY christians? Not mankind? How lovely. Are you implying jesus said "fuck you if you don't believe IN me"? Is this god character that pedantic?
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 84 by Peg, posted 12-30-2009 6:27 PM | | Peg has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 99 by Peg, posted 12-31-2009 11:29 PM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 832 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: 08-12-2009
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Message 89 of 126 (541054)
12-30-2009 10:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 86 by dwise1
12-30-2009 8:02 PM
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It's just that when one chooses to fight on a particular battlefield, one must be prepared for that battlefield. If one isn't prepared, then one should choose a battlefield for which he is prepared. Point taken. However, I don't think discussing this sort of thing should require 40 years in theology. No better way to learn to swim than to get thrown in the deep end of the pool. I'll learn as I go along. I can take a few licks: if I'm wrong about something, so be it.
Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people -Carl Sagan For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. -Carl Sagan
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 86 by dwise1, posted 12-30-2009 8:02 PM | | dwise1 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 90 by dwise1, posted 12-31-2009 2:12 AM | | hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied |
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