Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,914 Year: 4,171/9,624 Month: 1,042/974 Week: 1/368 Day: 1/11 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Free Will and Biblical Prophecy: Are They Mutually Exclusive?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 227 (494542)
01-16-2009 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
01-14-2009 6:48 PM


Re: Free Will and Biblical Prophecy: Are They Mutually Exclusive?
Straggler writes:
More generally - If we, as humans, can know certain future events as a matter of God given certainty how can we be said to have free-will regarding the actions required to make those outcomes happen?
Straggler, my friend, this question has been answered but you're not paying close attention.
It's not God giving certainty. It's man's free will exercise and God in his omniscient knowledge knows what man will do.
Did Jesus have free will relative to the crucifixion. Yes. He, the son, sharing the same spirit with God, the father; the Holy Spirit of the Trinity, had the same purpose and plans for the universe as God to effect the eventual demise of evil in the universe and establish a heavenly kingdom on earth.
The OT prophecies relative to Jesus had no effect upon the free will of Jesus, though Jesus was fully aware of them, being an avid student of scripture, including the prophecies. But Satan temped Jesus, nevertheless, hoping that he would exercise his free will and opt for the easy way out on the short haul. The devil, Satan knew that Jesus had free will. Otherwise he wouldn't have bothered to try. He knew also that if Jesus remained faithful to his mission, he, the devil's status would end and it would be curtains for him. Jesus didn't buy it and moved on to fulfill the purpose for which he was born. Jesus knew the prophecies concerning him and tried to convey them to his enemies, the rejectors of his messianic status.
Straggler, here's another point. Over the centuries of Christianity, including the present; especially the present, millions of people, knowing full well of the consequences of persecution, torture and death, determined to receive Jesus, the savior and die, if need, for the privilege of becoming children of God, the resurrection etc and receive eternal life. Jesus was fully aware at the temptations that if he abandoned his mission and submitted to Satan, likely he would escape the cross but loose his status as inheritor of God's kingdom on earth and his eternal life as well.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 01-14-2009 6:48 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Straggler, posted 01-18-2009 12:38 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 227 (494545)
01-16-2009 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by PaulK
01-16-2009 6:25 PM


Re: God's Smart
PaulK writes:
More generally - If we, as humans, can know certain future events as a matter of God given certainty how can we be said to have free-will regarding the actions required to make those outcomes happen?
Good question. If it is a good angel or a bonafide Holy Spirit energized prophet which makes the prophecy, the prophecy will be of such a nature that the subjected person relative to the prophecy will either willing to receive whatever the prophecy proclaims or the prophecy will foretell the result of the person's determined actions.
Example: Saul. After Saul consulted the witch of Endor to bring up Samuel, the prophet to prophesy to him, Samuel prophesied the end of the Saul's kingdom and the demise of Saul because of King Saul's evil deeds as King of Israel. Saul went away, I'm sure, a frightened and very discouraged man. But King Saul, being the kind of person Samuel knew he was, came to a period of crisis for Israel when the enemies of Israel were waging war on the kingdom. He and his sons went into battle and all came out dead, leaving the kingdom to eventually end up in the hands of David, the righteous inheritor of the kingdom whom King Saul sought to kill.
Example 2. Acts 21:10. A prophet named Agabus prophesied to the apostle Paul that if he went up to Jerusalem, this and this and this bad stuff would happen to him. Paul's response, knowing the status of Agabus as prophet, was that he was determined to go to Jerusalem in order to do the things God wanted him to do and endure the evil things that would happen to him at the hands of his adversaries which Agabus had prophesied.
Did Agabus's prophecy relative to foreknowledge have anything to do with what happened to Paul after he did indeed go to Jerusalem? No. The prophecy was effected by the omniscient knowledge of the Biblical god, Jehovah, the intelligent designer of the universe and the majesty of the universe, all powerful, all knowing all just and who is merciful and righteous in all matters in the unimaginably (Buzism)vast cosmos and here on this itty bitty speck called planet earth. PRAISE HIS HOLY NAME, JEHOVAH/THE I AM/THE ONLY TRUE EXISTING GOD!

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by PaulK, posted 01-16-2009 6:25 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024