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Author Topic:   How bad is your googling habit and what does it mean?
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 19 of 120 (431704)
11-01-2007 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Fosdick
11-01-2007 4:03 PM


Re: Gramps knows more than you do.
Hoot Mon writes:
You boys need to keep in mind that we older people are closer to history than you are.
Closer doesn't necessarily give you a better view. You can't see the forest for the trees, as they say.
They explain everything from post-war pop fashion to roots of twentieth-century social rebellion.
Ah, but roots have roots and those roots have roots and those roots have roots.... Don't jump into the middle of history and pretend that what you remember is the beginning of all.
-------------
As for Google, a wider variety of information should make us more selective, but does it?
When we eat at a restuarant with forty items on the menu, we don't just pick the first one. The Google buffet might have forty million items, so it isn't practical to consider them all - but we should still make an effort to sample more than the specials that Google recommends.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Fosdick, posted 11-01-2007 4:03 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Fosdick, posted 11-01-2007 7:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 26 of 120 (431742)
11-01-2007 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Fosdick
11-01-2007 7:20 PM


Re: Gramps knows more than you do.
Hoot Mon writes:
The closer you are to the source the more accurate the reporting.
As I said, The Source™ - of "juvenile delinquency", for example - goes back millennia, not decades. Effectively, you're no closer to the source than anybody else.
Here's what I Googled:
quote:
I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless
beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and
impatient of restraint.
--- Hesiod, Eighth Century B.C.
quote:
"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of
today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for
parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as
if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is
foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
--- Peter the Hermit, 1274

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Fosdick, posted 11-01-2007 7:20 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Fosdick, posted 11-01-2007 9:03 PM ringo has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 83 of 120 (432055)
11-03-2007 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Fosdick
11-03-2007 11:54 AM


Re: Interesting topic
Hoot Mon writes:
Wikipedia reminds me of the "Human Clock" at a folk-rock festival....
Very good. You might not be completely beyond hope after all.
...or maybe carboard clocks and digital librarians are nothing more than fancified tools that have always emerged in the course of human history.
Exactly.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Fosdick, posted 11-03-2007 11:54 AM Fosdick has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 100 of 120 (433249)
11-10-2007 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Fosdick
11-10-2007 7:01 PM


Re: computers know?
Hoot Mon writes:
You mean to tell me computers don't know how to play chess?
A computer doesn't know how to play chess any more than a Model A knows how to get to Paris. They just accept inputs and follow instructions.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Fosdick, posted 11-10-2007 7:01 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Fosdick, posted 11-10-2007 8:41 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 104 of 120 (433271)
11-10-2007 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Fosdick
11-10-2007 8:41 PM


Re: computers know?
Hoot Mon writes:
Every human child has to be programmed for the desired output.
No. A human programming another human makes no more sense than a Model A driving another model A.
The human psyche is a complex combination of inputs from a vast number of sources. The most you could hope for is to influence the child in the general direction of the "desired output".
Ay, Canuckistanian?
That's "Eh, Canuck?"

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Fosdick, posted 11-10-2007 8:41 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Fosdick, posted 11-11-2007 11:09 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 108 of 120 (433330)
11-11-2007 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Fosdick
11-11-2007 11:09 AM


Re: computers know?
Hoot Mon writes:
What about a computer programming another computer.
Happens all the time.
What about a computer programming a human?
Can't happen because humans aren't programable.
Humans can teach humans math, humans can teach computers math, computers can teach computers math, and computers can teach humans math. We have to be programmed (or taught) at one time or another.
Teaching is not programming.
Programming is strictly a one-way street - human/machine, master/slave, driver/vehicle. Teaching is two-way. Teachers have to learn before they can teach. Teachers learn by teaching.
But maybe things are different up there in the wastelands of Canuckistan.
It's windy today (and Google didn't program me to say that).

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Fosdick, posted 11-11-2007 11:09 AM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Fosdick, posted 11-11-2007 12:38 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 112 of 120 (433338)
11-11-2007 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Fosdick
11-11-2007 12:38 PM


Re: computers know?
Hoot Mon writes:
... when a kid recites his multiplication tables he is being programmed to do mathematics.
Learning the multiplication tables is just storage - assignment to an array.
Learning how to do mathematics is another thing entirely - learning how to apply one set of data (multiplication table) to another set of data (problem) to come up with a third set of data (solution).
And forget your two-way streets, unless you're willing to admit that computer programming is also iterational.
Computer operation is iterational. Computer programming isn't.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Fosdick, posted 11-11-2007 12:38 PM Fosdick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Fosdick, posted 11-11-2007 2:14 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 114 by crashfrog, posted 11-11-2007 2:24 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 117 of 120 (433381)
11-11-2007 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by crashfrog
11-11-2007 2:24 PM


Re: computers know?
crashfrog writes:
Iterative programming was one of the earliest concepts we studied in Comp Sci I, right after recursion. Isn't your basic "for" loop an example of iterative programming?
My terminology is probably off. Certainly, the machine executes instructions iteratively and programs often perform iterations.
I understood (or possibly misunderstood) Hoot Mon to suggest that the act of writing programs is iterative.
When I talk about "programming a computer", I mean writing the programs, not just loading them and executing them. By analogy, "programming a child" would involve devising a particular set of instructions that the child would always follow to get the desired output.
While it's possible to produce a kind of "Pavlov" response to certain inputs, I'd hardly call that programming.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by crashfrog, posted 11-11-2007 2:24 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by crashfrog, posted 11-11-2007 8:55 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 119 of 120 (433426)
11-11-2007 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by crashfrog
11-11-2007 8:55 PM


Re: computers know?
crashfrog writes:
I think you could make an argument that writing a program was frequently iterative; generally you block out the general structure of a program, using placeholders for functions, then going back and filling in the blanks, then going back and debugging (repeat this last about 20 times), etc.
That isn't really iteration though, is it? It isn't doing the same thing over and over again. It's doing different things in the same place.
... I'm just trying to arrive at a sense of what you're saying.
The whole "iteration" thing is fairly irrelevant, I think. My point was more that a programmer gives instructions which the computer follows to the letter. A teacher, on the other hand, passes on information (and information on how to deal with information) - not a prescribed, stepwise process.
A computer can only do exactly what it's told. Garbage in, garbage out. But if a teacher does a good job, the student will say, "Hey, wait a minute. This is garbage."
(I appreciate the nit-picking. It made more sense the first time I said it - which is probably not a good sign. )

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by crashfrog, posted 11-11-2007 8:55 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by crashfrog, posted 11-11-2007 10:44 PM ringo has not replied

  
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