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Author
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Topic: Are flightless birds a reversion?
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 1 of 44 (419219)
09-01-2007 3:37 PM
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As we learn more and more of the history of birds, I wonder if any/all flightless birds are examples of losing capabilities or simply examples of an original state? Is there any evidence that Reas and Ostriches as examples once flew, or is it possible that they are simply part of an evolutionary chain where flight never evolved?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 5 of 44 (419226)
09-01-2007 4:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by Buzsaw
09-01-2007 4:02 PM
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Re: No Fossil Record
What makes you think there is no fossil record? What makes you think other routes might not be applicable such as genetics?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by Buzsaw, posted 09-01-2007 4:02 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 09-01-2007 4:55 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 7 of 44 (419233)
09-01-2007 5:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
09-01-2007 4:55 PM
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Re: No Fossil Record
I googled fossil record for reas and ostrages and came up empty. Well, try ostrich and you might have more luck. It appears that the Ostrich and other similar birds are part of the "Ratite" with fossils going back to around 100 million years or more ago. The superorder Paleognathae also seems to have a long fossil history.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 09-01-2007 4:55 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 9 of 44 (419237)
09-01-2007 6:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 8 by anglagard
09-01-2007 5:45 PM
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Re: No Fossil Record
Well, as it becomes more likely that many of the dinosaurs that evolved into what we know as birds were feathered, it would seem at least possible that some of the feathered dinos might have evolved yet never developed flight. If that is the case, then the flightless birds in that category might provide insight into dinosaurs generally.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by anglagard, posted 09-01-2007 5:45 PM | | anglagard has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 10 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2007 7:31 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 11 of 44 (419246)
09-01-2007 7:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 10 by RAZD
09-01-2007 7:31 PM
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Re: wing vs limb elements
I agree. I have been trying to find wing structure information on some of the ancestral critters like the Elephant Bird, but so far with little luck. I'm hoping some of our members that actually know stuff can come to my rescue.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2007 7:31 PM | | RAZD has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 17 of 44 (419255)
09-01-2007 8:32 PM
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Please Gang, ignore the nonsense
Please gang. Can we head this back towards the topic and not get drawn down "silly rabbi" holes? We all know that "Kicks are for Trids."
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 22 of 44 (419269)
09-01-2007 9:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by RAZD
09-01-2007 9:29 PM
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Re: Ratites and neoteny
But it looks like some of the ancestors of todays examples go back before the KT boundary, if they actually do reach back as far as some claim.
Wiki entry on Paleognathae Paleognaths probably descended from a common ancestor in the late Cretaceous period on the supercontinent of Gondwana.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2007 9:29 PM | | RAZD has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 29 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2007 11:12 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 24 of 44 (419276)
09-01-2007 10:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by Rob
09-01-2007 9:43 PM
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More off topic nonsense from Rob.
Come on Rob. Will you EVER post something relevant or on topic? This thread, in case you missed it, is "Are flightless birds a reversion?" Try for once to get in step.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 9:43 PM | | Rob has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 25 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 10:20 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 26 of 44 (419283)
09-01-2007 10:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 25 by Rob
09-01-2007 10:20 PM
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Re: More off topic nonsense from Rob.
I'm sorry Rob but nothing in the linked thread was related to anything in this topic and no, you did not offer any information on the topic. In addition I have never had "control issues" which again is irrelevant to anything in this topic.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by Rob, posted 09-01-2007 10:20 PM | | Rob has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 30 of 44 (419294)
09-01-2007 11:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 29 by RAZD
09-01-2007 11:12 PM
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Re: Ratites and neoteny
Correct. And from what I have been able to gather, all of them exhibit either flightless or minimal flight adaption. I wish one of our more knowledgeable bio-paleo folk would drop in. AbE: I have also been trying to follow up on the "Old Jaws" moniker, to see if that might be related. Edited by jar, : No reason given.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 29 by RAZD, posted 09-01-2007 11:12 PM | | RAZD has not replied |
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