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Author
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Topic: Are flightless birds a reversion?
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 10 of 44 (419244)
09-01-2007 7:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 9 by jar
09-01-2007 6:21 PM
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wing vs limb elements
Interesting thought. I would think the evidence would be in the wing\hand bones, with the fusing typical of flight wings being either found or not found. Enjoy ps -- don't forget the Moa, you know ... Moa - Wikipedia
quote:
Moa were giant flightless birds native to New Zealand. They were unique in having no wings, not even small wings, unlike other ratites.
See the skeleton shown for a giant moa, no vestiges ...
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by jar, posted 09-01-2007 6:21 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 11 by jar, posted 09-01-2007 7:37 PM | | RAZD has not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Re: Ostrige... Ostrage...
I think it's an honest comparison, ... minus the issue of the Coelacanths not evolving legs etc. Why should we be surprised to find existing descendants of intermediates that continue to exhibit intermediate morphology? Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : ...
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 15 by molbiogirl, posted 09-01-2007 8:21 PM | | molbiogirl has not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Re: wing vs limb elements
Nice article, but hard to look at those hand\wing bones ... What do we have for Ratitae or Palaeognathae fossils? Thanks
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by molbiogirl, posted 09-01-2007 8:07 PM | | molbiogirl has replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Re: Ratites and neoteny
Neoteny strikes again eh? This would tend to indicate that the flightless aspect is devolved from flying ancestors, which would tie in with previous posts on bird evolution (by arach) suggesting that all current birds evolved from a marine type bird (IIRC) that survived the KT extinction event. Thanks
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by molbiogirl, posted 09-01-2007 9:11 PM | | molbiogirl has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 22 by jar, posted 09-01-2007 9:41 PM | | RAZD has replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 29 of 44 (419290)
09-01-2007 11:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 22 by jar
09-01-2007 9:41 PM
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Re: Ratites and neoteny
But it looks like some of the ancestors of todays examples go back before the KT boundary, if they actually do reach back as far as some claim. and
quote:
The Paleognathae or paleognaths ("old jaws") are one of the two living superorders of birds. The other living superorder is Neognathae.
All the other (living) birds are in the other superorder. Interesting.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 22 by jar, posted 09-01-2007 9:41 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 30 by jar, posted 09-01-2007 11:30 PM | | RAZD has not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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jaws
Do you know what the "old jaws" bit is about? Is there some basic morphological difference between the jaws of the two superorders?
quote:
Most paleognaths have long necks and long legs, and are specialized for running rather than flight; indeed, the ratites are all completely flightless. The group is not separated because of this though, it is rather based on the form of the jaw.
Thanks
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1436 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Re: Ratites Shmatites
we never seem to see, for instance, warm blooded animals "reverting" to cold blooded. at least, none that i am personally aware of. Crocodiles Pharyngula - Hotell anbefalinger Barcelona
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