Lying For Jesus Award

One of those Robisms...aka egg-corns. 'Mute' instead of 'moot' is actually in the list of egg-corns given by Wikipedia. Personally, until I came to EvC I had never heard such opinions of Christianity. I have never once used lying to serve God. I am very sorry that a few 'creation scientists' have ruined it for you.

All depends on who is doing the looking. I prefer to look at the countless saints who have done everything in their power to be great examples of christianity. I look at Mother Teresa, Miguel Pro, Damien De Veuster, Maximillian Kolbe. I find saints even in our midst. Don't sell out a proud heritage over a few rotten apples. What is visible is not what is important. It is the humble, unrecognized acts which make the person.

Forget Germany. Do Nazis make Germans look bad? I hope not. And I also hope Hovind and such don't make Christians look bad. Chrisitanity is no more real than its members, and a christian should be judged as individually as a German. Better yet, not judged at all.

I have been friends with atheists, satanists, Wiccans, gays, drug addicts, prostitutes, you name it. The people who have most rejected me in life were fellow christians. Do I judge christianity? Of course not, because I am christian.

I, as a white person watching the news in Philadelphia, am bombarded with reports of African-American violence, while the good and decent actions of black people do not make it to the spotlight. Why is anti-christian sentiment the last acceptable prejudice? Yes, the Salesians were founded IIRC by St John Bosco. I have recieved their newsletters and my family has supported them for as long as I can remember. One thing at a time. We have denounced Waco, the KKK, slavery, and forced marriage of young girls to polygamists. We have denounced end of the world fear tactics, corruption of the priesthood, and the actions of many christain leaders of government or false prophets like Hovind. It was a fellow christian who turned him in to the IRS, remember?Christians are no different than the rest of humanity. We are ALL tarred with the same brush.

Sure, the competition for Preacher of the Month is highly motivated by the desire for monetary gain and personal recognition. It is a huge turn off to see those campaigns which preach financial gain through prayer. They are on telly almost every day.

What does it matter what blacks or hispanics are TRYING to do? The question was about whether what SOME do should cause you to judge ALL. Should the visible actions of a community affect the entire community? You did not answer this, but instead described one community's mission. They are only one of many. There are a wonderful group of Fransiscans working in Africa amoung lepers primarily, and Mother Teresa's sisters in India. I am referring to the types of cults which marry young girls to their elders and/or family members before they are of age.You are assuming that there exists one 'christian' force which is supposed to stand up against other christians. There is not. Christianity is made up of thousands of sects, some opposing one thing, some another. The RCC for example has no control over all of christianity, and the voice of one group or one individual is only a voice. It is not a law. Good God-fearing christians will stand up for right whether or not it is in the name of religion. The point is, they do. As do good people from every walk of life. Why? You don't think the people who complained about the priesthood were themselves Catholic, and that every pulpit across the world did not resonate with disappointment and condemnation? Why? Do blacks have to turn in their criminals in the name of race? This is your rule, and it seems to be grasping at straws. The point is that good christians do exist, and they DO NOT have to act in the name of anything to make it 'right'. Should I go out on the streets and open doors for folk the whole while proclaiming Christ? Actions speak louder than words, you know. If you want substantiation it is easy to find on Wiki et al. Her name was Rebekah something. Who do you think has the authority to put them out of business? NO ONE. Again, christian leaders have denounced Bush, end-of-world, you name it. They denounce doctrines and views. That is all they CAN do. And not every christian opposes the same things.

Sort of, Phat. Christians have organized a social voice and have undertaken actions which help society. Trouble is, there is no uniform 'christian'. What do you want? A Pope? Folks preach whatever version of christianity they like, and on top of that, they practice whatever version they like. Many of them do not preach what others consider to be christainity at all, but who has the 'rights' to the name? What is the model of christian 'should be', and what is it based on? Who follows that model? Individuals.Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

Yes, it is very different on the inside looking out. I acknowledge good members of other christian groups, I do not attribute their sensibility to the merits of the group. By and large what is visible of many groups is vanity, fanaticism, greed, judgement of other groups, mockery of other groups, thousands of 'feel good' websites designed to make a quick buck without intellectual substance, hypocrisy, uncertainty, a myriad of faces, a myriad of conflicting dogmas. No, I answered a question that you specifically asked. It is not possible, I tell you. Many christians do not identify with other christians, they are more than likely sitting at home gloating over the arrest of Hovind the same way non-christians are. What good would it honestly do if all the Catholics in the world spoke out against a Protestant? Obviously they don't agree with each other. The people who need to speak out against the Protestants are their own sheep, and the people who need to speak out against the Catholics are their own sheep. Often they do not; they are sheep after all. But sometimes they do, which is why it is very relevent that I tell you about the woman who spoke out against Hovind, and the men who spoke out against the corrupt priests.Further, what the devil should I care if one christian thinks the earth is flat, and one thinks it is young, and one thinks it is a figment of our imagination? These are just beliefs, not evils. Even if some guy evades taxes, it is not my business to 'bust' him in the name of God. I have members of my own family who attempt to live as 'natural US citizens' working off of the land and receiving room and meat for payment. For them it has nothing to do with religion, and I will not be so foolish as to believe that the Hovind's of the world are following anything 'christian' in teaching.It is pretty interesting to think about being a crusader for chrstianity, but I suppose if I were to organize a public Speak Out in the Name Of Christianity fest, it would soon become a violent mess of people claiming I don't know jack about what christianity is. Obviously ex-altar boys and choir memebers either were or are Catholic. If you want me to look up some particulars about their current affiliations I can.I find the entire thing a little strange anyway. Almost no allegation was brought to light when it happened, only decades later or after the priest died. Almost nobody has mentioned a current incidence of this behavior. Once again; if one christian acts poorly and another acts admirably, why do we only hear about one of them? That is my point, not whether one acts in the name of christianity or not. A person truly acting in the name of christianity is going to quietly do what needs doing and take no credit.I don't want to be too lengthy; do not take this a sign of cherry-picking your reply. I will cover anything I may have missed if you so desire.

I appreciate your round-about agreeing with me. It is plainly obvious to me that there is no true Elvis, as there are just too many impersonators. The Hail Mary is an almost verbatim repetition of the words said to Mary (in the Bible) by the Angel Gabriel. You must have read the wrong few pages. Not your fault, you were only 8 years old.The rest of your post is A-ok.

On this forum you see examples of Christians speaking out against the lack of logic, humility, equilibrium, reality, coherance, respect for human rights, and a 100 other faults which we perceive in our fellows. I, though my opportunities are few, attempt to do the same in private life, and have thus far have accomplished nothing save for a resounding slam of the door to communication.Much of the 'speaking out' is indeed doctrinal, as much of the crazy behavior visible is directly produced by abusive doctrines. Much also is simply abused doctrines. For example, the combination of belief in an immanent return of Christ, with belief that one is bound to adherence with authority, has resulted in cults of fear which are dangerous to themselves and to others. While these doctrines are not harmful in themselves, they must be held within the bounds of rational 'normal' behavior. It is often those who abuse authority who are responsible for the brain-washing of their sheep, turning spiritual warfare into all-out gun-toting armies prepared to battle for Christ. Physical intervention from external power sources is sometimes the only solution, as most christians simply dismiss others as 'the devil' and are already beyond dialoge. At times, I believe there truly is some 'devil' at work internally. Don't hate me for it. A final note; I do understand the Republican situation. I am sure you are aware of the issues in the RCC, and we certainly have voices which speak against these issues, but they are split between those who feel it is too conservative, and those who feel it is not conservative enough. Many Catholics HAVE given up, gone into schism, disillusionment, other denoms, or as in the case of my family, the Eastern churches. Like you, I cling to an ideal, but perhaps it is easier because I believe that God will make things right, and well, I guess there is no God watching the Republican party. Does this attitude make me lazy? Maybe, in terms of 'speaking out'. But sometimes prayer and good works is the kind of laziness that others expect to see.

Sure. As long as you judge individual Christian organizations as well. You can start big or start small, your preference. There are upwards of 39,000 of 'em, each with their own mini-organizations. See The Clergy Project, and the Salesian Missions.

Most Catholics don't consider Catholicism to be a sub-sect of anything. To us, it is the epitome, the foundation, the corner-stone, the creme de la creme, the everlasting truth, The Faith, etc.Historically speaking it is not a sub-sect either. It was proceeded by nothing.

The same thing which prevents me from loudly and publically denouncing stupidity anywhere else. He is entitled to his, and it doesn't really rattle my cage. The Bible unfortunately has no copyrights or patents.Oh, and feel free to judge the RCC. You already have by leaving it. Just let me know if you want to judge the priests who are abusive, the missionaries, the use of inclusive language, the belief in exclusive male priesthood, the Novus Ordo Missae, the Society of St Pius X, the absence of Latin, or my favorite...the adulteration of the Mass with the ideas of Thomas Cramner.Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

The Eastern Orthodox split from the church in 1052. But to be fair, I understand what you are saying.There were different branches of Catholicsm early on and there still are. These are now called 'rites'. They are all now physically headed by Rome and the Vatican. They have no difference except in outward language and custom.