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Author | Topic: Is Abiogenesis a fact? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: There are alternative explanations, such as life came here from another planet to life embedded prior to the beginning of the universe (but not biological life). What does "not biological life" mean? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: In no way is abiogenesis "the only way it could have happened." I didn't say it was. I asked: What does "not biological life" mean? (I was under the impression that all life is biological.) Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: ... if we are going to speculate, it could be life exists that is not biological. It seems to me that any life would be biological by definition - even if it was completely different from life as we know it. It also seems to me that if there were "other forms of life" - i.e. other combinations of chemical elements - that abiogenesis would be more probable, not less. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
randman writes: What if life forms exist as thoughts and light...? Then they wouldn't be "life forms", pre se. But it's just semantic, I guess. I see the point you were making. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
pilate_judas writes: Welcome to the question of the ages! Actually, the question of the ages is: Where are my keys? The origin of life is much less compelling.
As I've said in my previous post: 'show me the worm from science's lab'. First show me the need for more worms. One of the reasons we haven't created life in the lab is that it is much easier to create it the old-fashioned way. Much of our lab work, in fact, is on how to destroy life. Don't confuse "we haven't done it yet" with "it can't happen". They said the same thing about the flying machine. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hoot Mon writes: This involve silicon crystals acting as sticky templates for nucleotide construction, and thus for building RNA. But he has nothing to say about the origin of the coded genetic language. I'm wondering why you don't just use the "template" idea instead of getting tangled up in ideas about "genetic language". Each template produces what it produces. Why does a collection of templates have to form a "language"? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hoot Mon writes: I'm unclear as to why you reject the notion of "language." I don't "reject" the notion of language. I'm saying that, if the notion of language confuses you, why not let go of that notion? Why not focus on the individual components of the "language" - i.e. the "templates"?
This lifts genes out of the mechanical role of being "blueprints" for proteins and places them in a role of codified prescriptions. Are you saying that there is not a one-to-one correspondence between the "templates" and what they produce? Edited by Ringo, : Various. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hoot Mon writes: ... they don't line up in any mechanical way that allows a protein to be built directly from its gene. What difference does it make whether the protein is built directly or indirectly from it's template/pattern/blueprint? You're describing a multi-step process where a tool builds a tool which builds a tool. A "language" might help to describe the process, but I don't think it's correct - or useful - to think of the process itself as a "language". Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hoot Mon writes: Life needs a non-mechanical code with a highly specific language. So you keep saying. But the building of proteins, etc. does happen - i.e. this molecule gets built on that template and it gets carried to a new location by a specially-shaped receptacle, where it's held in the proper position to be joined to that other molecule.... There is a mechanical process. You haven't explained (sufficiently for my understanding ) why there needs to be another level of magic (language) superimposed on that mechanical process. The very idea of language suggests communication. Communication between what and what? What is the transmitter, what is the receiver and what is the channel/medium? You need a mechanical explanation of that, too. Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hoot Mon writes: ... you could even say that those genetic instructions are "channeled" by messenger RNA. And how is that not a mechanical process? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hoot Mon writes: It certainly is a mechanical process, but it is still carrying genetic information forward. And that "information" is the equivalent to a stack of soup cans at the Kwik-E-Mart. What I've been trying to get out of you is: why superimpose a "language" on that mechanical process if all the language does is make it more mysterious? Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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