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Author
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Topic: Is Abiogenesis a fact?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 161 of 303 (319681)
06-09-2006 7:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 158 by crashfrog
06-08-2006 10:42 PM
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Huh?
randman writes: There are alternative explanations, such as life came here from another planet to life embedded prior to the beginning of the universe (but not biological life). What does "not biological life" mean?
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 158 by crashfrog, posted 06-08-2006 10:42 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 164 by ringo, posted 06-09-2006 8:12 PM | | ringo has replied | | | Message 167 by Isaac, posted 06-09-2006 8:17 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 164 of 303 (319691)
06-09-2006 8:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 161 by ringo
06-09-2006 7:55 PM
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Re: Huh?
randman writes: In no way is abiogenesis "the only way it could have happened." I didn't say it was. I asked: What does "not biological life" mean? (I was under the impression that all life is biological.)
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 161 by ringo, posted 06-09-2006 7:55 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 169 by ringo, posted 06-09-2006 8:21 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 169 of 303 (319700)
06-09-2006 8:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 164 by ringo
06-09-2006 8:12 PM
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Re: Huh?
randman writes: ... if we are going to speculate, it could be life exists that is not biological. It seems to me that any life would be biological by definition - even if it was completely different from life as we know it. It also seems to me that if there were "other forms of life" - i.e. other combinations of chemical elements - that abiogenesis would be more probable, not less.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 164 by ringo, posted 06-09-2006 8:12 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 173 of 303 (319706)
06-09-2006 8:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 170 by randman
06-09-2006 8:21 PM
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Re: Huh?
randman writes: What if life forms exist as thoughts and light...? Then they wouldn't be "life forms", pre se. But it's just semantic, I guess. I see the point you were making.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 170 by randman, posted 06-09-2006 8:21 PM | | randman has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 175 by Isaac, posted 06-09-2006 11:06 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Re: Digital Origins of Life?
pilate_judas writes: Welcome to the question of the ages! Actually, the question of the ages is: Where are my keys? The origin of life is much less compelling.
As I've said in my previous post: 'show me the worm from science's lab'. First show me the need for more worms. One of the reasons we haven't created life in the lab is that it is much easier to create it the old-fashioned way. Much of our lab work, in fact, is on how to destroy life. Don't confuse "we haven't done it yet" with "it can't happen". They said the same thing about the flying machine.
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 286 of 303 (369550)
12-13-2006 2:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 285 by Fosdick
12-13-2006 2:17 PM
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Re: Digital Origins of Life?
Hoot Mon writes: This involve silicon crystals acting as sticky templates for nucleotide construction, and thus for building RNA. But he has nothing to say about the origin of the coded genetic language. I'm wondering why you don't just use the "template" idea instead of getting tangled up in ideas about "genetic language". Each template produces what it produces. Why does a collection of templates have to form a "language"?
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 285 by Fosdick, posted 12-13-2006 2:17 PM | | Fosdick has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 287 by Fosdick, posted 12-13-2006 3:40 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 288 of 303 (369568)
12-13-2006 4:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 287 by Fosdick
12-13-2006 3:40 PM
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Re: Digital Origins of Life?
Hoot Mon writes: I'm unclear as to why you reject the notion of "language." I don't "reject" the notion of language. I'm saying that, if the notion of language confuses you, why not let go of that notion? Why not focus on the individual components of the "language" - i.e. the "templates"?
This lifts genes out of the mechanical role of being "blueprints" for proteins and places them in a role of codified prescriptions. Are you saying that there is not a one-to-one correspondence between the "templates" and what they produce? Edited by Ringo, : Various.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 287 by Fosdick, posted 12-13-2006 3:40 PM | | Fosdick has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 289 by Fosdick, posted 12-13-2006 7:32 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 290 of 303 (369640)
12-13-2006 7:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 289 by Fosdick
12-13-2006 7:32 PM
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Re: Digital Origins of Life?
Hoot Mon writes: ... they don't line up in any mechanical way that allows a protein to be built directly from its gene. What difference does it make whether the protein is built directly or indirectly from it's template/pattern/blueprint? You're describing a multi-step process where a tool builds a tool which builds a tool. A "language" might help to describe the process, but I don't think it's correct - or useful - to think of the process itself as a "language".
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 289 by Fosdick, posted 12-13-2006 7:32 PM | | Fosdick has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 291 by Fosdick, posted 12-14-2006 1:07 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 292 of 303 (369741)
12-14-2006 1:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 291 by Fosdick
12-14-2006 1:07 PM
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Re: Digital Origins of Life?
Hoot Mon writes: Life needs a non-mechanical code with a highly specific language. So you keep saying. But the building of proteins, etc. does happen - i.e. this molecule gets built on that template and it gets carried to a new location by a specially-shaped receptacle, where it's held in the proper position to be joined to that other molecule.... There is a mechanical process. You haven't explained (sufficiently for my understanding  ) why there needs to be another level of magic (language) superimposed on that mechanical process. The very idea of language suggests communication. Communication between what and what? What is the transmitter, what is the receiver and what is the channel/medium? You need a mechanical explanation of that, too.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 291 by Fosdick, posted 12-14-2006 1:07 PM | | Fosdick has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 295 of 303 (369757)
12-14-2006 2:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 294 by Fosdick
12-14-2006 2:51 PM
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Re: Digital Origins of Life?
Hoot Mon writes: ... you could even say that those genetic instructions are "channeled" by messenger RNA. And how is that not a mechanical process?
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 294 by Fosdick, posted 12-14-2006 2:51 PM | | Fosdick has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 297 by Fosdick, posted 12-14-2006 3:45 PM | | ringo has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 299 of 303 (369771)
12-14-2006 4:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 297 by Fosdick
12-14-2006 3:45 PM
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Re: Digital Origins of Life?
Hoot Mon writes: It certainly is a mechanical process, but it is still carrying genetic information forward. And that "information" is the equivalent to a stack of soup cans at the Kwik-E-Mart. What I've been trying to get out of you is: why superimpose a "language" on that mechanical process if all the language does is make it more mysterious?
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 297 by Fosdick, posted 12-14-2006 3:45 PM | | Fosdick has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 300 by AZPaul3, posted 12-14-2006 7:20 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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